No
"So the rules only apply to you as and when you decide to see fit."

Yes

"And how about the jumping of the red lights putting others in danger - such as pedestrians?"

Absolutely not

"You have the right to be on the road only if you accept the responsibility of following the rules of the road, which means don't jump red lights. At all"

The rules of the road, combined with traffic, and combined with the temperament and behaviour of other road users (including cyclists) often results in very dangerous situations for those not with the luxury of being sat in a 1-ton metal box on wheels. So no.

My point is that the rules of the road often put cyclists in danger, and quite serious danger. I'm talking actual death here.

As long as you put nobody else in danger, the rules can and should be broken to ensure your own safety.

/edit: sorry edited it while you were responding. Not changed the sentiment though
( rofl harris, Mon 26 Jul 2010, 16:51, 2 replies)

Hahahaha
And cyclists breaking the rules put pedestrians in danger, and quite serious danger.

Say you're an average bloke (I'm sure you're delightfully above average in every single, charming way, but I'm being kindly conservative as you'll see). You're say 5'10, and weigh between 9 and 10 stone. Jumping lights you'll be doing 15-25mph. You'll hit me with the force of a baby elephant.

Now, I'm a robust chap, but I think even I would be slightly peturbed by such a shock.

But absolutely fuck only knows what you'd do to a child that ran out from behind a parked car.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Mon 26 Jul 2010, 16:59, closed)

Yep
I am 5'10 correct, weight's a bit off (you were very generous.. upward of 12) - yes I'd probably cause some damage to a pedestrian.

Every seen somebody on a bike having been squished by a car in traffic?

I've seen two. The first about two years ago - physically looked fine, but dead on impact. The second - a girl in her mid twenties staring at her dismembered leg and screaming after having been dragged against railings by a goods lorry (yes turning left from a junction).
( rofl harris, Mon 26 Jul 2010, 17:05, closed)

I don't see how that justifies you puttting others at danger from you.

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Mon 26 Jul 2010, 17:06, closed)

Because
I see any potential damage caused to others to be less harmful than the potential damage caused to me. You might see this as selfish, but it's self-preservation, and I challenge you to do a daily commute on a bike in any major city without breaking one of the "rules".

Anyway. I'd never whizz through at 25mpg. I proceed with caution.
( rofl harris, Mon 26 Jul 2010, 17:13, closed)

Cool. So you don't mind me shooting at cyclists who jump red lights
And if I wing you, you'll understand because it was just self-preservation.

Oh, and while I'm at it, punching random grannies in the face in case they're martial arts-trained suicide bombers.

Pfft. "Fuck you I'm alright let them die I'm worth more than other people".

And yet you seem to think it's not OK for car drivers to hold such an attitude.

Brolly through the spokes time, I'm sure you'll agree.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Mon 26 Jul 2010, 17:17, closed)

I half expected you to invoke Godwin there

( rofl harris, Mon 26 Jul 2010, 17:25, closed)

Indeed - it does seem that logic isn't your strongest suite.

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Mon 26 Jul 2010, 17:29, closed)

"Oh, and while I'm at it, punching random grannies in the face in case they're martial arts-trained suicide bombers."
And you're somehow claiming the above as analogous to jumping a red light.
( rofl harris, Mon 26 Jul 2010, 17:37, closed)

This is also turning into a bit of a row
So let's agree to disagree.

edit: hehe saw your deleted post there. Concede? Never! Muhahaha. Now I'm off to run over babies and punch grannies in the face from my honda-bmx-ninja-bikeamathing
( rofl harris, Mon 26 Jul 2010, 17:37, closed)

No - I'm taking your logic of self-preservation and the law only applying to me as and when I see fit to it's logical conclusion
IE - I can do what I like, but other people should do as they're told.

Your position is one of hypocrisy - on the one hand you complain that car drivers endanger cyclists, but on the other you take that as justification to endanger pedestrians and feel no need to apologise.

So one rule for you, another for everyone else.

I don't agree with that position.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Mon 26 Jul 2010, 17:44, closed)

Nope, that's not my viewpoint
Everyone should be able to break a law that endangers them, as long as it doesn't endanger others.

/edit ... and if it does endanger others, that it endangers them LESS than it would you by not breaking that law. E.g. a quick whizz over the lights with nothing coming (proceeding with caution), versus a chance (however small) of getting killed.
( rofl harris, Mon 26 Jul 2010, 17:46, closed)

Right, OK.
So if I own a car it's OK for me to endanger cyclists if I feel endangered by trucks.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Mon 26 Jul 2010, 17:48, closed)

Nope
Read what I typed:

"Everyone should be able to break a law that endangers them, as long as it doesn't endanger others."

If there's no cyclist there, then by all means take evasive (or even pre-emptive) action.

"And if it does endanger others, that it endangers them LESS than it would you by not breaking that law."

If there's a cyclist there, killing the cyclist to preserve yourself is never acceptable.

/edit: and now I do have to go home. Carefully. On my brompton.
( rofl harris, Mon 26 Jul 2010, 17:50, closed)

Hahaha
Thanks for playing.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Mon 26 Jul 2010, 17:54, closed)

absolute balls.
i cycle 10 miles each way through London every morning and evening and don't feel that my life is ever threatened at a red. there are generalyl lovely great boxes at the lights, cars move fairly slowly or are more usually stopped (what with it being a fucking red light) and i'm not an unobservant fucktard.
(Alphabet Soap boshboshboshbosh, Wed 28 Jul 2010, 15:32, closed)