I would love to be able to run rings around JWs like that.
But to do so would require me to study theology, and the study of theology is the study of nothing.
( Colonel Dracula Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, Thu 11 Dec 2008, 16:10, 1 reply)

I disagree.
Theology is an interesting study of the human mind, and how we deal with the unknown. We all have to face the void, and some deal with that by putting a more or less human face on it. Generally speaking that face is a warped reflection of their own, so when you argue with a religious person and make them defend their beliefs they get upset because you're not just arguing logic- you're arguing against them, personally. Telling them that God doesn't exist is forcing them to look at the void itself- and that makes them frightened.

Theology is a fun thing to play with, really.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Thu 11 Dec 2008, 16:19, closed)

Wot you talkin' about Loon?
Ha! Jokes on you, I know exactly what you're talking about
( Colonel Dracula Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, Thu 11 Dec 2008, 16:34, closed)

That's an interesting way of looking at it
And I think I agree: anyone who's afraid to question their beliefs is afraid that they'll find they have no real beliefs to question. As you say, many people will vent that fear outwards as anger or frustration, because they know you're telling the truth but don't want to admit it.

At the same time though, a lot of people who aren't religious presume that if someone *is* religious then they must be either mortally stupid or wilfully ignorant, and hence incapable of intelligent thought. There's a fine line between dismissing someone's beliefs and dismissing their ability to reason. I can understand why people would be riled at what is possibly the ultimate disrespect.

Of course, blowing someone up for not agreeing with you is not exactly being respectful either.



Sorry, that got a bit serious there. I promise not to do it again.
(Concrete Cow, Thu 11 Dec 2008, 17:14, closed)

I'm always questioning my own beliefs.
And I'm always listening to the thoughts of others in case I'm wrong. I'm not arrogant enough to believe that I'm absolutely right- just that, based on what I know now, my answers are good enough for me to follow.

Atheists- the sort who lecture religious people as though they're idiots- have also taken a leap of faith, only in the opposite direction. God's existence or non-existence cannot be proven or disproven- there's only opinion. So they've assumed that God doesn't exist, and sneer at anyone who believes otherwise. They're just as zealous as the worst fundies you can find, and every bit as smug.

I can accept the beliefs of others as something that works for them. No problem at all- just as long as they don't try to force me to their view. If they begin trying to browbeat me, we're gonna tangle.

To me the entire question of the existence of God- and religion in general- is a great and entertaining thought game. There's a limit to how seriously I can take it, so I don't get heavily invested in any one view and am willing to argue from any side of it. Which often makes me unpopular with those who have strong convictions...
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Thu 11 Dec 2008, 20:21, closed)

We;ve been here before.
Atheism isn't a leap of faith; it's a simple recognition that there's no reason at all to believe in a deity, and that there are reasons not to. It's parsimonious and in intellectually good taste.

I heard Jonathan Miller speaking a couple of weeks ago, and he was saying that he wasn't even in favour of the word "atheism", since the non-belief in a deity ought to be so much of a given that it goes unnoticed. It's a fair point...
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Fri 12 Dec 2008, 9:35, closed)

^This
The scientific viewpoint is one of only giving credit to a viewpoint based on evidence.

If a viewpoint goes against the evidence, or has no evidence to support it then it can be dismissed until such time as evidence is presented.

I accept the idea of 'God' as much as I accept the idea of dragons or a hollow Earth - there is no material evidence to support the theory and thus it can be safely dismissed for the present.
( chenobble rocking his explorer beard on, Fri 12 Dec 2008, 12:27, closed)

*grin* I had forgotten about that.
Yes, I do recall now getting into that debate with you. That was fun.

But I'm not going to re-kindle that here. I know well enough that you could out-debate me any day.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Fri 12 Dec 2008, 14:02, closed)

All you need
Is to quote their own material against them...JW's translate their passages and you can just easily as they do translate it to however you want to go about it. Although a good theological background would always be a bonus.
(Jonald Poor power ranger putties, they can never hug, Thu 11 Dec 2008, 21:17, closed)