Everything about this article just makes me so sad.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/swaziland/5382713/HIV-sufferers-could-be-branded-in-Swaziland.html

MP Timothy Myeni has suggested making tests compulsory for every person in the southern African state and then forcing those who were infected to be permanently marked with a warning logo.

He claimed the scheme would help stop the spread of the killer disease by reducing sexual activity between HIV positive people and uninfected partners.

Speaking at a workshop for MPs on how to tackle the epidemic, he added: "Before having sex with anyone, people will have to check their partners' buttocks before proceeding,"

Campaigners furiously criticised the idea with Siphiwe Hlophe, a health campaigner, saying the system would contravene human rights laws.

She said: "How can a legislator lobby for the branding of HIV positive people?

"We do not need legislators who think like him because some of the people who voted for him could be positive, why is he then discriminating them?"

Swaziland has the highest HIV infection rate in the world, with around 43 per cent of the population believed to be living with the disease.

The tiny landlocked southern African kingdom has previously been criticised for its failure to tackle the condition.
( fuck shit up the best you never had, Mon 25 May 2009, 20:42, 7 replies, latest was 16 years ago)

You know what this reminds me of?
The tattooing of prisoners by the Nazi's.

It's awful. Education is what's needed - the education to use condoms and to not be afraid to ask someone if they are HIV positive, and to get people tested. Not permanant disfiguration. Branding is awful, just so much can go wrong with it.
(Potty Jag har smör i min rumpspringa, Mon 25 May 2009, 20:47, Reply)

I find it hard to get upset about this
Compulsory testing doesn't sound like a bad idea when so many people are infected.

Would it work? I have no idea. A study seems like the answer to that, rather than rejecting the idea because it "contravenes human rights laws". To be perfectly frank, I reject the idea that HIV positive people have a right to sleep with whoever they like. In an ideal world I fully agree that education would be the answer, but given the failure so far to prevent the spread of HIV in Swaziland isn't worth thinking about other options?

Isn't this a case of desperate times calling for desperate measures?
( GarbageFan didn't know what to have as a board sig on, Mon 25 May 2009, 21:01, Reply)

Good points
Compulsary testing is a good plan. Branding on the other hand, is not. Even something that awful is not worth permanant disfigurement. This is me trying to put my values on another culture though, which doesn't exactly work.

I don't think that a lot of the education on it and how to prevent catching it reaches people sadly. A combination of poorly vested interests and bad infrastrucure plus a lack of money will not have helped the spread. I think if people really knew the full extent, were not afraid to ask their partner, the partner was not afraid of saying "yes" and the full range of preventatives was out there, there wouldn't be this problem today.

And, in my own way of being harsh, we do need to reduce the worlds population...
(Potty Jag har smör i min rumpspringa, Mon 25 May 2009, 21:11, Reply)

I agree with most of the points you raise, but in the spirit of continuing the debate:
To try and address your points in turn:

"Even something that awful is not worth permanent disfigurement"
I think it is if it stops HIV spreading further (but admittedly I have no evidence that it would). People's lives have to be more important than tattoos.

"This is me trying to put my values on another culture..."
Yep, you and me both.

"I don't think that a lot of the education reaches people".
Agreed. It's very easy for us to say "education, education, education"; in the real world education, even on things like this, is pretty far down the list of priorities. Something that is effective is key, loftier goals than that come later IMHO.

"We do need to reduce the world's population"
Do we? Isn't this something people said back in the 1970s? Overpopulation doesn't strike me as one of the key issues the world faces in the next generation or so, though a lack of equality means the split between rich and poor is only going to get worse.

I'm still waiting for somebody to mention religion's role here. A quick wiki tells me Swaziland is 25% Catholic and 35% Protestant, so an anti-condom position from the religious classes would be the first thing to change, no?
( GarbageFan didn't know what to have as a board sig on, Mon 25 May 2009, 21:29, Reply)

Peoples's live are more important than tattoo's
But they're not going to use tattoo's - they're going to burn in to the skin. With the weakened immune system from HIV anyway in latter cases, there is a good chance these are going to be fatal.

I'm not good at addressing arguements by points. But I'll try.

The education point - this goes with religion. I was trying my hardest to avoid it because it's a personal opinion that I can't base in fact. However, it is well known that the catholic church is very, very against condom use - one thing that can and does prevent the spread. I do feel, because a lot of the education programs include proper condom usage, that the catholic church in particular discourages the spread of these programs. Abstainance won't work - people get horny. We need a different way to stop the spread. Just advocating condom usage and makig them more widespread would work even better than branding, which can be hidden.

The reduction of the worlds population - I do feel it needs to happen. There are too many of us, using up too many resources. I'm not saying kill everyone over 60 or something stupid like that. But we need to stop having as many kids, and lower the amount of people - HIV almost seems like natures way of doing that. Except we will beat the bastard in the end.
(Potty Jag har smör i min rumpspringa, Mon 25 May 2009, 21:56, Reply)

I have no problem with compulsary testing, in fact I support it
it's the branding and lack of education that bugs me. The fact that about 43& of the population are infected shows that they are not doing enough to educate people.
( fuck shit up the best you never had, Mon 25 May 2009, 21:13, Reply)

barbaric
This is simply barbaric and has no place in our value system.

To follow from g_p point above this does indeed look like the Nazi behaviours in imprisonment of everyone they didn't like such as Belsen.

Education about condoms, a mass screening programme and prophylactic antivirals may be a way of either slowing the rate of infection down.
(Eds Meds Mathskillz=1,Socialskillz=0, Mon 25 May 2009, 21:04, Reply)