Jazz, I find, has the same problem as progressive rock
When it's done well, it can be exciting, inventive, challenging and a real joy to listen to. Unfortunately there are always going to be some wankers who take it too far and disappear, sax, double bass and all, up their own posteriors. There are some, like Coltrane, Hancock and Monk, who veer very close to that line - some of their stuff is superb but other times you just wish they'd shut the fuck up.

As for the wankers that spend all their time making or listening to the really avant garde stuff, I agree, it has to be posturing. I really fail to see how anyone can get off on such formless noise, other than by getting off on other people's reaction to it.

Cannonball Adderley was superb - if you're ever in need of some mellow latin jazz, his Cannonball's Bossa album is worth seeking out.
(LongJohnBaldry, Wed 19 May 2010, 16:42, 1 reply, 16 years ago)

Avant-garde Jazz strikes me
as one of the clearest examples of 'Emperor's New Clothes' music ever.

Everyone knows it's shit but some people are afraid to be the first one to say so, in case people think they don't 'get it' and it's somehow their fault.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 19 May 2010, 16:45, Reply)

One of the best jazz bands I saw
was the Humphrey Lyttelton Band. Now there was some good, straightforward, enjoyable jazz. A nice blend of swing and trad played by a superb team of musicians (of a very wide range of ages). No snobbery, nothing 'highbrow' about it, nothing you had to 'get.' I appreciate that a genre has to progress, and new and more inventive writers would be welcome to try and throw it around a bit, but I really wish some players would just stop, mid-saxophone wank and say,
"Guys, sorry, but this really is just shit, isn't it? Can we just play a bit of Gershwin for a change?"
(Now that I would pay £30 to see)
(LongJohnBaldry, Wed 19 May 2010, 16:53, Reply)

there's a presidents of the USA song called Jazz Guy
it has some great lyrics some of which I will now relate:

"I wanna be a jazz guy and play black music for white people,
I wanna learn all the chords and solo till everyone in the room,
is bored,
beyond,
belief,
I can't wait,
for the end of my solo,
sweet sweet relief"
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 19 May 2010, 17:12, Reply)