I kinda figured you'd be annoyed. *laugh*
No, I haven't read Marx. I'm sure you could cite me chapter and verse where he demolishes the argument. You've studied him, I haven't.

I was reacting to the general overview as presented (actually the teacher was very good, he just had to cover a lot of ground that day so he oversimplified) at an early hour of the day when I hadn't had enough coffee and was feeling grumpy. I'd probably have argued against democracy that morning.

As to Marx not accepting the concept of human nature- here I really do disagree. People do in fact have an underlying nature that affects their behaviors and personalities. For evidence I tend to point to siblings- my own three kids have very different personalities, despite being raised by the same parents and being very close in age. The same could be said of my own siblings, and of every other bunch of siblings I've ever met.

But also, though Marx would probably not care to admit it, human beings are still essentially animals. We have conscious minds, I grant you, but that doesn't really mean that our superior intellect stops us from doing things that we know we shouldn't. Why not? Because of our underlying natures. Willpower only goes so far.

In any case. it was a tale of me being a bit tactless in class with an unexpectedly good result.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Fri 4 Nov 2011, 11:52, 1 reply)

Not angry. Just disappointed.
Tee hee.

Your claim about your siblings, though, doesn't really speak to the denial that there's such a thing as "human nature". There might be humans with characteristics, but that won't tell you that those characteristics could not have been otherwise, or that they're anything much to do with being human. (I'll admit here that there is a tinge of human nature stuff in some of Marx's writings, but it's open to dispute just how important it is.) And Marx would have had no problem at all with humanity's animalism.

I don't understand your democracy claim, by the way. It's not as if there're no perfectly good arguments against that.
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Fri 4 Nov 2011, 14:28, closed)

True. Democracy is mob rule, when you boil it down.
I meant that at the time I was feeling a bit surly and argumentative anyway, and would have picked an argument just for the sake of arguing. Early morning is not a good time for me in general, and discussing political theories is generally not one of my favorite things anyway.

Similarly I took a class titled "Ethics and Health Care" that semester, as I had to have an ethics elective of some sort. The class was taught by a nun who ultimately took a liking to me, especially after I argued in favor of executing criminals by exsanguination to supply the blood banks. (I was ripping off Larry Niven at the time.) I had the class in a minor uproar as I defended my position that it would be a way for violent criminals to repay society by saving lives, and she stood to one side grinning.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Fri 4 Nov 2011, 14:40, closed)

Bwahahahaha!

( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Fri 4 Nov 2011, 16:06, closed)