cunting supermarkets
I spent the first 18 years of my life being unemployed, not by choice, you must understand, but because none of the shops out in the stix want an in(un?)experienced spotty teenager who isn't old enough to buy a can of lager.

I don't understand why shops don't want to hire a willing, honest, qualified, hard working person just because they are under 18... That is still one of my many niggles...

I mean, if they only want employees with expreience, how are people supposed to GET any experience!?

Sorry, rant over.
(LiL_Arsewipe licked your face on, Mon 6 Apr 2009, 0:38, 5 replies)

in my experience:
(and I'm not saying it's right, just explaining:)

* If you're under 18 you can't sell age restricted products without the direct supervision of an 18+ supervisor.

* There are limits on young workers as to when, and how long, they can work.

* You're limited with certain tasks - I think operating meat slicers, or heavy lifting, for example, is restricted.

* Also, you are entitled to extra (possibly paid) breaks than someone older.

Even the lower rate of NMW doesn't offset these disadvantages for some people. The rules are meant to protect you, but don't fit every case well.
(The Incredible Sulk Finally remembered his password on, Mon 6 Apr 2009, 2:56, closed)

You're right of course, but the argument still holds up
I'm 21, and I had trouble getting till monkey work in retail. "Looking for a motivated individual with retail experience." To operate a till. Really, how much experience do you need?

That's something I'd been asking myself for 8 months until I finally found work recently. Where did all these 'experienced' people come from, and just exactly how did they get it in the first place??
(Dyslexic Pidgeon, Mon 6 Apr 2009, 3:46, closed)

If our outfit was anything to go by:
They think they need geniuses, becasue it takes so long for new staff to get up to speed. They don't. They actually need competent trainers who actually understand what they're teaching, as opposed to reading theory to you. For if you don't already have a knack for IT, it's like one of those school science/maths/language lessons covered by a PE teacher becasue no-one else was free - long and slow.

(Rant) Of course, the trainer job was guarded jealously as it gave her exemptions from real work. The deli counter was walled off and turned into a training room, which due to building layout gave her an excellent place to skive unobserved. Luchtime Rush / Big Spillage / Delivery Lorries queueing to unload? Oh, suddenly she's got NV-sodding-Q paperwork to complete. Perhaps if she spent a little less time gossiping and slacking, she might have more time to actually put in her share of the work, which she's assumed to contribute when it comes to calculating staff levels. (/rant)

You're right in that someone needs to give people a chance - this is what I meant by my response here www.b3ta.com/questions/unemployed/post398182 when I referred to "schizophrenic" job descriptions. You could understand airline pilots and surgeons needing prior experience (Eg prior rating on light aircraft, doctorate + 4 years); but almost anyone can fly a checkout, and if it's so skilled why is the pay so low?

The further you get from these lofty heights, the less willing people seem to train up new staff.

Seems you've got a few options to get into retail:

* Lie. Pretend you have experience to get your foot in the door. After all, they'll certainly lie in the job description, contract, staff handbook, etc. ("Competitive wage", "H+S is a priority", "compassionate leave will be granted", my arse).

* Nepotism. Find a friend or relative in the sector and get them to help you in. Do not feel guilty; the higher you go the more prevalent this is. I get the impression our entire board of directors is related somehow.

* Ignore. Tackle the problem head on; and explain (possibly in person) with simple examples, how it actually isn't a problem. Didn't you figure out that 2nd hand VCR / set top box / PC, possibly without instructions, in a few hours? Possibly overawe than with jargon, compliments, and feigned interest - "Ah, looks like you're running Windows XPe EPOS. Good choice, you get broader familiarity with a minimal vulnerability tradeoff. How do you find it?"

(Of course, if I'm such an expert, why am I technically unemployed? Take with caution.)
(The Incredible Sulk Finally remembered his password on, Mon 6 Apr 2009, 4:41, closed)

how to get experience:
get a voluntary job.

There's two routes. First is charity work. You can find out about this at your local volunteer bureau, or by wandering into charity organisations and giving them a CV directly. You spend 4 hours a week (or whatever) doing something positive for yourself and those around you. People think you're a Nice Person for doing charity work. You may get to go on courses for useful bits of paper such as First Aid certification, free of charge. You now have a "current employer" who will give you a glowing reference. Your CV now has something on it to show that even though you've been unemployed, you haven't sat on your arse doing nothing, you are a motivated person. Occasionally (it happened to me) the charity will get funding for an actual paid employee and you will be top of the shortlist for that job.

The other route is "work experience" and is harder work, but better if you're being very very specific about what you want to do. You contact local firms within your chosen industry and offer to work for them, for free, for a fixed period of time (eg a month), with the proviso that if you land a job elsewhere you are free to take it (this is necessary for JSA purposes but also in case you *do* land a job elsewhere). Best case scenario, they're impressed and take you on, worst case scenario, you go home with experience and a reference from someone within the industry, CV shows you are motivated, etc.
( Batsgirl, Mon 6 Apr 2009, 18:12, closed)

This is better than what I said.
Only caveat I'd add is; please don't use a group just to do a first aid course, then bugger off. It costs time and money to run these courses, even if run by other volunteers.

Used to hack us off enomously when someone would feign interest, join up, be issued expensive uniform and given a limited place on a first aid course; only for them to quit as soon as they get the piece of paper that represented their Free FAW. We're usually left with an ill-kept set of 2nd hand uniform (if they even bothered to return it), and although strictly speaking the course place wasn't wasted, it could have been *better* used for someone who'd actually go out there and help people on a regular basis (instead of only using it to get a job / pay raise / spruce up their UCAS).

Not suggesting for a moment that anyone here actually would, but conning charities is wrong, people.
(The Incredible Sulk Finally remembered his password on, Mon 6 Apr 2009, 20:05, closed)