I agree with you for the most part.
But as someone rightly pointed out up there, the politicians are the evil ones, not the guys who risk their lives on their behalf.

I think it's important to make a distinction between the army and the soldiers it consists of. The primary function of a military force is to defend the nation. Some might argue that the war in Afghanistan is an interventionist war - hitting them before they hit us so to speak. But then that argument could be used to invade whatever country we wanted. Personally, I don't think we should be over there at all. But that's not to say I don't respect the people that go there to fight. And as I've said, I believe that anyone who takes a job that serves the betterment or protection of the public (and I'm not talking Baristas at Starbuck or anything like that) should be respected.

An armed force is a necessary evil whichever way you want to look at it. And whilst we have no business in Afghanistan, we are actually doing some good over there, even if it is something of a short term solution. It;s not just fighting that the army does over there, a lot of it is providing medical support to one of the poorest nations on Earth and establishing local law enforcement that can provide some semblance of regional stability. I think anyone who dies whilst improving the lives of others deserves to considered heroic.
( PMGT -Bacon., Sat 2 Jun 2012, 0:29, 1 reply)

I'm not sure "Dies while improving the lives of others" quite defines it...
By that token, if I fell off a ladder, broke my neck & died while painting my disabled neighbour's lounge I'd be a hero.

You already mentioned that most soldiers just think they're doing their job... in my eyes the heroes are the ones that go above & beyond that, like for instance the guy who disobeyed an order to retreat & saved a load of wounded colleagues' lives.

But then again, what do I know? I'm not even a real professor :)
(Professor Kenny Martin Hmm? What?, Sat 2 Jun 2012, 9:18, closed)

Again, I agree with you
The Sun are the ones responsible for this idea of a soon as you get injured you're automatically a hero. I know that a lot of soldiers themselves aren't comfortable with that.

I'm aware mine is a bit of a fuzzy definition. I suppose what I mean is people who do jobs that shape and define a person's or people's entire life. Painting your disabled neighbours lounge, whilst a lovely thing to do for someone, isn't going to have a dramatic impact on their entire life. A paramedic who saves someone's life after they've been stabbed, however...

I think anyone who risks their life by fighting the Taliban, in order to provide a better quality of life for the people of Afghanistan - because that's what they're doing when you get down to a human level, regardless of whether you agree with the motives for going in the first place, or even any ulterior motives that may or may not exist - should rightly be thought of as a hero.

Jo was killed by a Taliban fighter who threw a grenade at him from behind a wall. What wasn't mentioned in the papers was that the Taliban recruited children, knowing that the Army wouldn't shoot kids, to point out where the soldiers were. A little kid, who was being used as a pawn by the men they were fighting, gave their location away and the grenade was thrown, hence the "behind a wall" part. That is the type of person they are fighting, the sort of person who would put a kid on the frontline in order to gain a tactical advantage. Make no mistake: they're evil. Regardless of what you think about the bigger picture, the men they are fighting are monsters, and they make life hell for the innocent people that live there.

Just like people say it's par for the course that soldiers join up knowing they're going to get shot at, they also join up knowing that they're probably not going to be punching Nazis in the face on the shores of Normandy any time soon. The Army's main role, for a long time now, has been as an international peacekeeping force and you won't find a single soldier who didn't join up without being aware that they'll probably end up fighting someone else's fight in some arsehole of a country somewhere. And yet they join up anyway.

I always love the argument that some people like to level here (not your good self though) that the reason they join up is because they come out of school with no qualifications or prospects and the army is the only place that will take them. That is true to an extent, but I live in an area of Manchester with the highest unemployment figures in Greater Manchester. In an age where a startling amount of people leave school and then do nothing at all other than sponge off the taxpayers, and I live next door to a woman who does exactly that with 5 kids, I think they deserve some respect for at least doing something that contributes to the nation as a whole instead of sitting on your fat fucking arse, screaming at your kids for existing and practising all day at full volume for your X Factor audition, like my neighbour (I'm not exaggerating here).
( PMGT -Bacon., Sat 2 Jun 2012, 12:20, closed)

Well said, dude

(Professor Kenny Martin Hmm? What?, Sun 3 Jun 2012, 23:55, closed)

It's the best qotw trolling I've seen in some time

( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Mon 4 Jun 2012, 9:18, closed)

Do please let us know
when you have done something of value to society. I won't be holding my breath.
(ianisme, Tue 5 Jun 2012, 19:04, closed)

They are only evil because they are them
If we'd been invaded by Herr H, I bet we'd have had sweet, doe-eyed children all over the country pointing out concealed Germans to the brave, noble, heroic resistance. Medals would have been given out for it.
(ubergeekian, Mon 4 Jun 2012, 9:39, closed)

Well yeah, thats probably true as well...

( PMGT -Bacon., Mon 4 Jun 2012, 11:14, closed)

We do what we have to
and they do what they have to. During the war the losers complain that the winners are breaking the rule; afterwards the winners complain that the losers broke the rules.

Wouldn't it be lovely if we could all just get along?
(ubergeekian, Tue 5 Jun 2012, 9:36, closed)