She'll hit me in a minute.
I am wobbling. I am sick of idiots thinking that making families homeless is a Good Thing.

I am also sick of pointing out to these idiots that if people can work, they are on JSA, and you only get JSA if you are actively LOOKING for work. If you don't, your benefits are stopped.

Why should you make people homeless as well?
( Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Tue 5 Feb 2008, 14:11, archived)

Nobody said anything about families
you did (possibly from your own experience.)

The point is that a state can only provide so many carrots before it has to resort to the stick. The welfare state is there for the genuinely needy, not for those who just don't want to work. If you can't work, whats the reason? If it's genuinely medical or personal, you'll be exempt from this policy. If not, then please justify to us all why you can't maintain one of the many jobs you would have been offered before you faced eviction.
( Grrrmachine the indifference engine, Tue 5 Feb 2008, 14:16, archived)

I don't have an actual opinion on the subject.
But I'd like to argue with you all anyway.
( baldmonkey a frothy foul-smelling vaginal discharge, Tue 5 Feb 2008, 14:17, archived)

This
Like I've said before, there's so many places that have jobs going, but if they're not 'good enough' then people won't do it. The shitty jobs, like rubbish collection and being on a checkout in Aldi, are good money! McDonalds is shit pay but at least you'd be REDUCING the benefit you're getting, as opposed to relying on the government for ALL of your bills.
( Methylene Blue - electrohead, Tue 5 Feb 2008, 14:20, archived)

Give up your benefit.
Go on. Get one of those jobs, and give up your benefit.
( Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Tue 5 Feb 2008, 14:22, archived)

I've DONE IT
For fuck's sake. I know it's hard, but like I said I don't want to dissolve the whole benefits system!
( Methylene Blue - electrohead, Tue 5 Feb 2008, 14:24, archived)

Isn't she in full-time education as well, to try and get a better-paid job
in order to give up the benefit? So she's conforming to the ideas proposed by the minister in this story.
( Grrrmachine the indifference engine, Tue 5 Feb 2008, 14:24, archived)

But why evict them at all?
If a few people think dodging officials and living on benefits is a good way to live, let 'em. If you want the self-satisfaction of seeing them (and, at the risk of appealing to emotion, their kids) on the streets or in a shitty hostel at the risk of terrorising legitimate, unfortunate people, fuck off.
( Newington, Tue 5 Feb 2008, 14:27, archived)

If it were a cheeky few abusing the system, then fine
as you'll always have a minor percentage pushing the boundaries. The start of this story, however, was due to the increasing number of people in this category, and how to tackle that increase.

Or do you think we should give anyone who asks for it state accomodation, whatever the cost?
( Grrrmachine the indifference engine, Tue 5 Feb 2008, 14:35, archived)

Yes.
I don't mind paying tax so people have a roof over their heads if they need it.
( Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Tue 5 Feb 2008, 14:39, archived)

That's how it worked over here
the ultimate cost was a level of taxation akin to 76% of your income, the complete collapse of privatised industry due to the lack of money flow, massive crime from lack of domestic goods and a crippled ineffective bureaucratic state trying to manage it.

It's nice in theory, but it just doesn't work.
( Grrrmachine the indifference engine, Tue 5 Feb 2008, 14:45, archived)

Thankyou!
Somebody can see the fucking sense in it all.
( Methylene Blue - electrohead, Tue 5 Feb 2008, 14:51, archived)

And all because of not evicting people from council houses!

( Newington, Tue 5 Feb 2008, 14:52, archived)

Newington, as much as I admire you, you've provided nothing to this argument other than
"eviction is wrong." However, it still happens every single day right now in councils up and down the country, and will continue for as long as people abuse the system.

Looking after the needy is necessary, but it doesn't take too long before every single person is classified as "in need." You therefore have to prioritise, and that's all this minister has suggested; a new method to make the housing situation more fluid, to get the more needy people in as quick as possible and the less needy out.
( Grrrmachine the indifference engine, Tue 5 Feb 2008, 14:56, archived)

Do you think "eviction happens" is an argument against "eviction is wrong"?

( Newington, Tue 5 Feb 2008, 15:01, archived)

very much so
if you are from the viewpoint that "eviction is right" in some circumstances.
( Grrrmachine the indifference engine, Tue 5 Feb 2008, 15:03, archived)

If you're on JSA, you won't get made homeless.
(should this bill come to fruition)
( Jenk Neptune is a pedant and now I can't fit my sig in, Tue 5 Feb 2008, 14:17, archived)

Like I said, not necessarily without a roof over your head
And have you been into the JSA looking for work scheme? If you have, you'll know that people sit in buildings, find a few jobs, pretend to apply to them and write it down in a logbook, which is not followed up. Hell, I've seen people do it, sit in their dining room and write loads of company names down and seal it for a fortnight!

And do they fuck lose their benefit! They go onto income support after a while!
( Methylene Blue - electrohead, Tue 5 Feb 2008, 14:17, archived)

Haha, the bit about JSA is true

( Bobson I who milks the milkmen?, Tue 5 Feb 2008, 14:21, archived)

No. They lose their benefit.
I've seen it happen. They lose their benefit and get stuck in the system for a few months. They then get threatened with evictition, have to pay unpaid rent back, regardless of whether they end up qualifying for housing benefit again at a later date, and some lose their houses because of it.

THAT is why most people end up in emergency accommodation.
( Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Tue 5 Feb 2008, 14:25, archived)

I've not seen a single person lose their JSA for more than about a fortnight
In this stage, they're propped up by emergency funding and then get income support.
( Methylene Blue - electrohead, Tue 5 Feb 2008, 14:36, archived)