good point,
I prefer to stick with the Universe these days because bringing God up too early puts people off. But still, isn't this just semantics? It's like saying I don't care, only the genes that led to the formation of my brain.
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 9 Jun 2009, 22:06, archived)

the difference between your will and the molecules that form your genes
is more than a semantic one, isn't it? Certainly if you believe in a Prime Mover, will must be a fairly fundamentally different thing to chemistry.
( Flapjack I spay a little mare for you, Tue 9 Jun 2009, 22:12, archived)

I don't subscribe to any form of dualism, if that's what you mean.
The brain is an entirely deterministic state machine. But it is still said that people have the capacity to "care".
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 9 Jun 2009, 22:15, archived)

And they do so by modifying their behaviour
to improve the welfare of other humans. Compare and contrast with "I don't care about X" - it doesn't affect your desires and you won't do anything differently as a result of X's existence. Like the universe. :)
( Flapjack I spay a little mare for you, Tue 9 Jun 2009, 22:21, archived)

There is nothing in the universe to which the Laws of Nature do not respond.
They care about every last grain of sand. And everything that happens is in some way connected to everything else that happens. The Universe fundamentally cannot ignore any fact, or person. It may appear uncaring when it isn't partial to your whims, but really, it's still doing exactly as you ask. Because you think you want one thing, but you ask for the opposite.
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 9 Jun 2009, 22:24, archived)

But they don't modify their response.
And you don't ask in any voluntary way, or signalling way. You don't have a choice but to 'ask'.
( Flapjack I spay a little mare for you, Tue 9 Jun 2009, 22:29, archived)

Your actions aren't voluntary?
And a brain doesn't modify its response, either. It merely has a very complex response that depends on past events. As do the laws of nature; which they'd have to, because a brain is entirely subject to those very same laws of nature.
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 9 Jun 2009, 22:37, archived)

Yes, they are
but my actions and conscious asking has no effect upon the universe. I only ask to be scalded by hot water in the sense that someone asks for a smack in the mouth by being a twat. And since we're ignorant of (probably) much of the natural law of things, we can't ask in an informed way.

A human modifies its response dependent on past events. It is complex. There's no disagreement there.
( Flapjack I spay a little mare for you, Tue 9 Jun 2009, 22:47, archived)

yeah I think the Universe as a whole is pretty complex too,
agreement there, I hope? The point is, brain cells don't change the way they work as such, they really change the "data" stored in them.

Your actions have every effect upon the universe, otherwise what's the point in doing anything? Your actions have consequences. We're not that ignorant of the effects of, for instance, boiling water, but it's in our own interests to find out more. Ignorance is not an excuse.

I think perhaps the trouble is that people tend to think of "caring" in a very personal way. I say the Universe cares. I don't mean so much that it cares whether you're happy or not. It'll kill you, if you ask it in the right way, and won't feel a jot of guilt. It's up to you not to ask for a smack in the mouth, if that's not what you want. Because that's not such a scathing analogy as you might think. The guy who gives you a smack in the mouth cares about you being a twat. What the universe cares about is complete impartiality, because that's the only thing that provides us with opportunities to achieve anything. It would actually be, in my opinion at least, a bit rubbish and pointless if we were all just fanned and fed grapes by angels all day.
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 9 Jun 2009, 22:57, archived)