I'm not saying they can't,
I'm saying they're not, in this particular situation.
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 26 May 2010, 23:32, archived)

How can you be certain?
When does "society's influence" end and personal volition start? How do you know that no sixteen or seventeen year old can possibly have ambitions that were not imposed by society?

Looking at it another way: if a sixteen year old committed a crime, would that be their fault or society's fault? How about if the criminal was only eight? What if they were twenty-five?
( in vino veritas, Wed 26 May 2010, 23:40, archived)

I'm not saying that.
I'm saying it is morally dubious to try to push people into it, or present it as a social ideal, on the television.
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 26 May 2010, 23:50, archived)

But that IS what you said
You said "We are shaped by our society. The 16 year old isn't the leader here." and that "I'm saying they're not [a leader], in this particular situation." That indicates to me that you believe society is telling the young person what to think and that they don't have personal autonomy at that age.

I'm not sure the producers of the programme are presenting it as a social ideal to be honest. They're presenting it as entertaining television.
( in vino veritas, Wed 26 May 2010, 23:58, archived)

The situation, that I started this whole conversation with,
is that of "Junior Apprentice". A show which, I suspect, was not commissioned by teenagers.

The producers might not be purposefully presenting it as a social ideal, but they're still doing it. Really they're only uncritically echoing a general pre-existing sentiment.
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Thu 27 May 2010, 0:03, archived)