How can you even tell me it's a computer if it isn't an idea?
I don't think you've got even a basic grasp of the idea I'm trying to convey, here.

You don't experience "the computer" directly but only through sense data, and data is information is ideas. There is no evidence at all for this thing you call "the computer". It is a mental construct. It is "simples arranged computerwise" as Trenton Merricks might put it.
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 2:05, archived)

You're not so much saying "everything is an idea" more, "I use my brain to experience things" which I don't think anyone is arguing against.

( mike woz ere 7442200 & 7696970 getter, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 2:08, archived)

my brain is an idea too.
everything I think is an idea. One can hardly think in anything other than ideas. So how can one suppose that there IS anything other than ideas? Anything other than an idea can only be an idea I just had, anyway, that I use to explain the other ideas that I had.
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 2:14, archived)

All you are saying is "I HAVE A BRAIN AND I THINK" over and over again.
We get it.
( mike woz ere 7442200 & 7696970 getter, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 2:20, archived)

No I'm not.
I'm saying everything I think is an idea, and I think about senses, which are therefore ideas, and thus the idea of something that is not an idea is self-contradictory. Ergo everything is ideas ergo everything exists in a mind. Or "there is no mind independent reality". Google that phrase if you like.
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 2:28, archived)

You think indeed. Ideas and sense are not the same thing.

( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 2:35, archived)

sense is an idea.
how can you think about it and communicate it to me if it isn't? There can't be a word without an idea for it to correspond to. Or a thought.
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 2:37, archived)

Your semantics are becoming confused a little here.
An idea is an abstract concept based on preception and is a fucntion of self-aware sentience.

Senseing is a base brian function interpreting stimulus.

You can have ideas and no senses and have senses and no ideas.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 2:43, archived)

you're assuming the existence of brains again.
Ideas aren't always abstract. They can be concrete. In fact they are typically concrete.

The idea of sensing is an idea (truism). To connect it to things other than ideas is an assumption.

One can hardly have senses without ideas. One might have what could be called a "nerve impulse" and a corresponding reflex. I wouldn't call it a sense unless there was some awareness of it. But this is going off on a bit of a tangent.
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 2:54, archived)

I'm assuming sod all.
A sense IS merely the interpretation of a stimulus via an organ in the body. Again, you can sense but not form any ideas.

Why are you arguing for any sort of idea being concrete if you don't think there IS any form of reality?

I'm going to bed. I'm glad you had a good holiday and all. If you wan't to discuss any further gaz me.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 3:11, archived)

Just because everything is an idea doesn't mean that therefore logically nothing is materially real.
One does not follow from the other.
( TFD is sporting this season's finest necropants, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 2:37, archived)

unless somehow an idea can be materially real,
in which case what exactly do you mean by "materially real"? If the relationship between ideas is valid without any of them being "materially real" then what is the use of this concept, and how can we distinguish ideas that are materially real from those that aren't? I am putting it to you that "materially real" is only a label that we mentally apply to certain of our ideas; it is an artificial, abstract category of ideas that we have made up.
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 2:43, archived)

There is no understanding/conception/sensation of mind independent reality doesn't mean there is no mind independent reality.
What you are saying is indeed possible, but no more so than the possibility that empirical sense data has objectively real material causes independently from our ideas.
( TFD is sporting this season's finest necropants, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 2:52, archived)

but where do you get this idea of a mind independent reality from?

( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 2:56, archived)

Where do you get any proof it is not there?

( TFD is sporting this season's finest necropants, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 2:58, archived)

It is absurd.
About as absurd as that celestial teapot. There is no reason to suggest it, and no evidence for it. Given what we know of teapots, there is no way one could be in distant space. And given what we know of ideas, there is no way that some of them could materialise somewhere independently of the mind that thought them up. Although if you really do want to admit the possibility of the latter, it opens up all kinds of religious possibilities that I won't go into.
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 3:06, archived)

IT'S NOT GOD'S IDEA
that's what I'm driving at. Some muppet invented the blueprints for this laptop. Someone mined the resources, some cunt shipped it to a factory (probaly in China) where low paid grunts assembled it. Another chump drove it to the docks for another bunch of folks to put it on a ship for it to be ploughed through the seas (are they just an idea too?) for it to be unshipped, moved to a PC World where some spotty young prick sold it to me for a LOLDICROUS mark-up.

It's made of STUFFS. It is not just an idea.

I get all your points doll but your tying yourself into knots. Slighlty patronising, considering where your coming from, to dismiss me quite to lightly.

YES IDEAS ARE IMPORTANT. ARE WE ALL JUST AN IDEA IN GOD'S 'MIND'? I DON'T THINK SO.

In all honesty I'm not sure if you're taking the piss or not.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 2:13, archived)