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# nah,
Apple look like they might end up like Microsoft if they're not careful, but to say Bill Gates was a lovely guy back in the 80s/90s as well, when Microsoft were copying Apple for a start, and forcing pc manufacturers to pre-install windows thus making pcs way more expensive than they needed to be, and also making newbies think all computers had to run windows, was worse than what apple are doing now (IMO).

Gates is apparently a nice guy -now-, but he nicked a load of ideas (M$ didn't invent windows). I bet it's probably guilt over all the shit he & M$ did years ago ;)

edit: I not a Apple fanboy by the way, if Linux had a better user interface and better media packages I'd be using that 100% of the time. But I just can't stand windows cos it's crap, and Microsoft itself for all the shit they did years ago. They make good mice though (but that's shiny hardware)..
(I helped save b3ta! Ysol ab abl blap, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 18:06, archived)
# Microsoft copying apple?
Microsoft make software and they were both copying IBM, but remember who was there making this stuff.

The crap people talk about M$ is nothing like what actually happened when we were living it.

M$ took closed systems and made them open in a way which Apple never did. They made their software cross platform and open to all, where Apple make theirs closed and are evil with good PR.
(I helped save b3ta! LordManley twitter.com/LordManley, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 18:15, archived)
# I'm not saying apple were saints, no business is (are?)
It's just miro$oft were worse. And they didn't invent windows; neither did Apple, it was Xerox or something wasn't it? But Apple came out with windows before M$ anyway. Plus making the newbie public think all computers just naturally ran windows (by forcing pre-installing), thus ensuring most people run windows on their computers to this day, was a masterstroke of salesmanship. Okay people had to put up with buggy operating systems and came to think rebooting every few days was normal, but hey..
(I helped save b3ta! Ysol ab abl blap, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 18:28, archived)
# apple did not come out with windows
both companies produced seperate software based upon Xerox's desktop environment.

i don't believe that companies were forced to put windows on at that time, but there was very little choice software in terms of a usable operation system at the time, microsoft saw an opening by offering heavily discounted software to companies making desktop computers, a model whic stuck, i don't think apple offered their operating system to any other third party manufacturer during that time.
(I helped save b3ta! Thor_sonofodin has done things, terrible things on, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 18:51, archived)
# but apple came up with windows before microsoft, that's what i meant
As for the forcing, M$ changed their licensing agreements so pc manufacturers had to include windows (and (I think) no other operating system), if they wanted to continue using MS-DOS which was by then already entrenched. This meant no other fancy graphical operating system (Linux, BSD etc) could get a look-in on the new PC clones being churned out.

Or something like that - see this: www.spectacle.org/0901/maloney.html
(I helped save b3ta! Ysol ab abl blap, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 19:05, archived)
# no, xerox came up with a desktop environment that both companies based their software on
hence when they tried to have a pop at each other about 'stealing' the desktop environment neither had a leg to stand on.

microsoft saw a market opportunity to get manufacturers to commit to supplying their software (of which there were scant other operating systems that were usable at the time) with their systems.

to my recollection apple never offered their operation system to any other party except using it on their own prebuilt systems, thus controlling both the software and hardware of their business.
(I helped save b3ta! Thor_sonofodin has done things, terrible things on, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 19:44, archived)
# "apple came up with windows before microsoft"
Emphasis on "before", I know Xerox did it first :) It was only when M$ saw what Apple had done with Xerox's system that they realised that was the way to go. www.b3ta.com/board/10563513

The thing with M$ & PCs though was how they stifled any competition on a machine (PC) that could allow loads of operating systems (rather than Apple stuff that was all in-house, i.e. OS & hardware).

(I helped save b3ta! Ysol ab abl blap, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 21:17, archived)
# Well they came up with their own OS based on xerox's ideas
But it wasn't windows, or they would have called it windows.

And at the time microsoft were releasing their verson there weren't really many viable alternatives that didn't require a certian knowledge about computers to make it an out of the box product.

You could say thay at a later date linus torvaldes copied both microsoft and apple when he released the kernal for linux, which itself required a certian knowledge to get working in its various guises.

You could say that apple have copied some of the innovative research in the mobile phone market that nokia had forged over the years. The thing that apple has been good at is walling in the garden and creating slick user interfaces.
(I helped save b3ta! Thor_sonofodin has done things, terrible things on, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 23:44, archived)
# "But it wasn't windows, or they would have called it windows"
I meant the very idea of a graphical user interface to move files around using a mouse etc, not what it was called.

"And at the time microsoft were releasing their verson there weren't really many viable alternatives" - true but there were some but M$ stifled the competition by forcing pc manufacturers to install windows. Anyway this is one page with more details (again): www.spectacle.org/0901/maloney.html, I'm off to bed :)
(I helped save b3ta! Ysol ab abl blap, Fri 7 Oct 2011, 0:41, archived)
#
Apple look like they might end up like Microsoft... - how can any 'successful' business not?

forcing pc manufacturers to pre-install windows... - 'forcing' ?

...if Linux had a better... - ahhh...
(I helped save b3ta! artifus is doing it all wrong, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 18:21, archived)
# Just found a nice thing that sums it up, the situation 10 years ago:
www.spectacle.org/0901/maloney.html

But: by "ending up like Microsoft" I mean disenchanting its users by being overly authoritative, and by "forcing" I mean "forcing computer manufacturers to take Windows if they wanted to continue shipping their computers with MS-DOS already installed. Computer makers abided, because selling a computer with no operating system installed would have put them at a severe disadvantage: consumers didn't want to install operating systems themselves if they didn't have to." (from the link)

edit: anyway, sod this, time for tea :9
(I helped save b3ta! Ysol ab abl blap, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 18:38, archived)
# iSync failure: unable to detect irony
(I helped save b3ta! artifus is doing it all wrong, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 18:46, archived)
# I guess not! :(
what was the joke? :)
(I helped save b3ta! Ysol ab abl blap, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 18:52, archived)
# disenchanting its users by being overly authoritative
apple itunes, istore, etc
(I helped save b3ta! artifus is doing it all wrong, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 18:54, archived)
# ah gotcha, well yeah that's what I meant, they have started going down that road too, unfortunately :/
(I helped save b3ta! Ysol ab abl blap, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 18:58, archived)
#
The OSX interface is hideously pofaced too. Boring as hell.
(Monchberter Can't go wrong with Doom, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 23:13, archived)
# trying to figure out how to get the shares off a guy with cancer probably counts as "not nice"
end of the day, they got lucky with shit

plenty companies back in the day and were the in thing and nobody'll remember them these days
(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Thu 6 Oct 2011, 18:23, archived)