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# ^THIS
I'm Atheist, but I'm currently leaning towards Wiccan, who have Yule instead of Christmas.

Regardless, it's become a sort of universal holiday rather than just Christian. I know people from many walks of life who celebrate it.
(I helped save b3ta! Bourbon Fox Bourbon is a moron, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 18:48, archived)
# i'm atheist too
but am accepting of all religious festivals that involve getting pissed a lot and eating choccy :)
(I helped save b3ta! cakeburglar still bored with Freebase, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 18:50, archived)
# Now this is a viewpoint I can get behind.
(I helped save b3ta! Mu Dinofiddler, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 18:53, archived)
# Hear hear :)
(I helped save b3ta! Bourbon Fox Bourbon is a moron, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 18:55, archived)
# Cafeteria religionism.
Or public house religionism, perhaps...
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 18:58, archived)
# Wicca? Really?
It's paganism-lite for wimps who don't like the fact that the religion was founded in blood.
(I helped save b3ta! Mu Dinofiddler, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 18:52, archived)
# RACIST! *points hateful finger*
Well what I mean is, I don't believe in any deities yet some of the ideals of Wicca interest me.
(I helped save b3ta! Bourbon Fox Bourbon is a moron, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 18:55, archived)
# The ideals of pretty much every religion have good points.
It's the nonsense about all powerful dieties and people in power using it for their own benefits that ruin religion.
(I helped save b3ta! Mu Dinofiddler, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 18:59, archived)
# I'm glad I wasn't the one to say it.
It's scarcely even that, a load of ceremonial magick largely concocted by bored civil servants in the 1930s. The fact that they pretend it's genuinely ancient to the point of actually fabricating source material really... gets my goat.

The "An it harm none, do as thou wilt" is oft cited as an ancient Pagan maxim but is in reality Gerald Gardner's lame paraphrase of Aleister Crowley that entirely missed the point.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 18:57, archived)
# I read it was founded in the 50s/60s. And as I said up there, I just find some of their ideals/beliefs interesting
but I most likely won't tag along, being a man of science.
(I helped save b3ta! Bourbon Fox Bourbon is a moron, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:00, archived)
# Frankly I just find it baffling the degree to which so many modern secular types are outwardly hostile towards Christianity,
but then go all starry eyed over any sort of pagan reconstruction.

The origins of this particular fad are interesting to study, though.
This is a good book.

(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:05, archived)
# I guess it's because so many small groups branching off Christianity take it way too far, make the whole thing seem cultish.
(I helped save b3ta! Bourbon Fox Bourbon is a moron, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:10, archived)
# I find it's all bollocks
SKY DADDY GONNA HATE :)

let's face it, if there's any all powerful deities out there, they are all powerful wether we prostrate outselves before them or don't give a crap.

Life's too short, man.
(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:14, archived)
# I don't know what I've caused, man. XD
All I said is I prefer to call Christmas 'Yule', and this happened.
(I helped save b3ta! Bourbon Fox Bourbon is a moron, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:18, archived)
# ahh
can't beat whacking out one's great log at xmas

and saying to the festive folk, try it, yule love it!
(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:20, archived)
# D'oooooh! *rummages for spanging pan*
(I helped save b3ta! Bourbon Fox Bourbon is a moron, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:26, archived)
# that's a very self-centred and hedonistic attitude,
I can't say I share it.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:24, archived)
# No, it's most absolutely not self centred, at all.
Anyone who claims to be able to state "THIS IS ABSOLUTELY HOW THINGS ARE" is being self centred.

Things are what they are irrespective of my viewpoint, in what way is that self centered?

What I think I understand or don't understand is down to my experience of existence, if I don't accept what someone says just because they say this is the way in what manner am I at fault?

You accuse me of being hedonistic, I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. I also have not insulted you, you have just insulted me. How dare you tell me what I am. Would it be acceptable if I said to you what you are, irrespective of what you actually are?

Telling others what I decide they are is not an attitude that I can say I share.

Until you gain omnipotence save such pronouncements.
(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:39, archived)
# "Life's too short" is pretty much the hedonist's maxim,
too short for worry about whether we're doing God's will, so let's just enjoy ourselves instead. Something along those lines was written on the side of London buses, anyway. If that's not what you meant then please do set me right, here.

But I wasn't commenting on WHAT YOU ARE anyway, but the attitude (apparently) expressed. Obviously I have hit a sort spot.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:44, archived)
# worried about doing gods will?
NOBODY knows gods will. All that there is to trying understand it and leading a life appropriately is faith in ones beliefs, beyond that how can any human comprehend the will of such an entity.

You declared specifically what I am. Rude arrogance does not warrant favourable treatment.

If you want to be condescendingly judgemental that's your perogative, but don't be surprised when that burns away any positive value in your opinion in return.

And as for hitting a soft spot, you're right, I'm such hedonistic vermin that I deserve no means of retort. How dare I be offended, I should know my place and allow those who know better then me to say anything they think they know.
(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 20:05, archived)
# It's the idea that we shouldn't even "give a crap" about God's will that struck me as self-centred.
I didn't say anything at all about what you are. I've no idea what you are other than annoyed right now. I only commented on the attitude expressed. I had no idea you'd even take "hedonistic" as such an insult, some people actually describe themselves as such, and now the word "vermin" suddenly comes up.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 20:12, archived)
# A large proportion of my family are pagan.
I pretty much ignore them. The only thing I've learned from them is how to read half a suit of tarot cards and that pentacles are actually good things.
(I helped save b3ta! Mu Dinofiddler, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:02, archived)
# Oh and not to let sprites near a window and an uncovered crystal ball, or they'll try to burn down your house.
I wish this one was untrue.
(I helped save b3ta! Mu Dinofiddler, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:11, archived)
# if you try to put too many sprites in a row some of them will dissapear
/nerd joke, just ignore
(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:16, archived)
# ah, but do you know why?

/does know why
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:18, archived)
# slots baby
not enough slots

or whatever the made up nomenclature is for whoever made it :)

little 9918 can only show 4 in a row, even though it can think about 32

/descending into nerddom....

and of course bandwidth, lol, 1976 indeed
(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:19, archived)
# I'm Wikian
which means I celebrate on 43rd of Chufftember [citation needed]
(I helped save b3ta! Griffin Saver Something, something, 2006, something., Fri 2 Dec 2011, 18:57, archived)
# Although I'm an atheist myself I do love the wicca traditions
Burning the yule log etc. just seems so much closer to nature.
(I helped save b3ta! maiden is filmed before a live studio audience, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:01, archived)
# Yeah, I admit I'm a bit of a naturist. Shame I'm the only one in my family that would want to partake in the Wicca side of it.
(I helped save b3ta! Bourbon Fox Bourbon is a moron, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:04, archived)
# you like to walk around in the nuddy?
(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:15, archived)
# Nothing wrong with that there is too much body-shame in society
(I helped save b3ta! maiden is filmed before a live studio audience, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:23, archived)
#
here here
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:32, archived)
# Well maybe not THAT naturist... XD
(I helped save b3ta! Bourbon Fox Bourbon is a moron, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:23, archived)
# "Wicca" traditions?
Yule is a pagan festival. Just because wicca stole it doesn't make it theirs.
(I helped save b3ta! Mu Dinofiddler, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:08, archived)
# Pagan is a generic terms created by Christians
Wicca is an actual religion, Pagan isn't - it's just something that's Heathen and Non-Christian.
(I helped save b3ta! maiden is filmed before a live studio audience, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:18, archived)
# Yes, a generic term.
The fact wicca is a (laughably) real religion doesn't mean they own the festival they stole from 1600 years before wicca was created.
(I helped save b3ta! Mu Dinofiddler, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:27, archived)
# Well I'm not saying I know enough about Wicca to state any such thing
but they do burn the yule log so it's a tradition within their religion although in truth it would appear they are Neo-paganistic rather than some ancient religious that the Christians assimilated as their own. Nobody know enough about traditional pagan religions as mostly they didn't write stuff down but it's clear that Christian used most of pagan belief system to ease the transition from pagan to christian. But Pagan is certainly a generic term so it wrong to attribute anything to them as it's more likely to be bits of one religion and bits of another. Nonethe less I prefer the agrarian based religions as they re based upon nature and seasons rather than some abstract concepts of Heaven and Earth.
(I helped save b3ta! maiden is filmed before a live studio audience, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:35, archived)
# To say Christianity "used" pagan beliefs is a bit much,
it's closer to the mark to say they couldn't do anything about it so they let them carry on.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:41, archived)
# They assimulated some aspects of pagan agrarian-based religions
December the 21st is the Winter solstice and has been pre-dating Christianity if is understood that in some quarters that Christians used this date as the birth of Christ when evidence shows Jesus was probably born nearer to March/April time according to the star alignment and the change to the Gregorian calendar. But I'm not going to argue points I don't actually believe in it takes too many presumption on both sides to form an accurate conclusion.
(I helped save b3ta! maiden is filmed before a live studio audience, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:47, archived)
# December the 21st is the solstice in actual fact, regardless of religions,
it's an astronomical thing. As mentioned below, however, the date of Christianity is more likely from the Roman festival of the Sol Invictus.

There is, as far as I know, no evidence at all for the date of the birth of Jesus. Christmas wasn't celebrated at all until about the 3rd century because Jews didn't celebrate birthdays. Any attempt to relate the Star of Bethlehem to a real astronomical event is not only highly speculative but highly missing the point.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:52, archived)
# Like I said I know very little of religion I'm not stating anything of any real value other than
there are questions regarding all religions.
(I helped save b3ta! maiden is filmed before a live studio audience, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:57, archived)
# More wrong than to assert a religion 60 years old has "traditions".
Or ascribing a tradtion to belongs to a religion that is younger than it by over 1 and a half millenia?
(I helped save b3ta! Mu Dinofiddler, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:42, archived)
# I really am stating nothing I'm an atheist - remember.
(I helped save b3ta! maiden is filmed before a live studio audience, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:49, archived)
# I suppose it's an actual religion,
but it's not a traditional one, as much as it likes to present itself as such.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:29, archived)
# Not really pagan is just a generic term for many many different agrarian based religions
(I helped save b3ta! maiden is filmed before a live studio audience, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:37, archived)
# no I'm talking about Wicca.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:38, archived)
# Ah yes Wicca is a neo-pagan religion
trying to re-establish the old agrarian religions. Which is mostly guess work as most pagan religions were not documented.
(I helped save b3ta! maiden is filmed before a live studio audience, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:41, archived)
# Where Wicca is concerned it's mostly making things up to fit in with what modern people would like to believe.
If there were any real effort to properly reconstruct the ancient belief systems, from what little we do know of them, there would be arrests.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:48, archived)
# True and there is a lot of bastardisation of pagan culture as told by Christians
so it really is impossible to come to any conclusions about paganism in terms of the ancient agrarian-religions that existed in this country. The best model of paganism is the Native North Americans which shows close ties with nature and close community spirit, but whether British pagans followed these ideals is open for speculation.
(I helped save b3ta! maiden is filmed before a live studio audience, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:55, archived)
# there was no contact between Europeans and Native Americans so if there is any similarity
it is entirely coincidental.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 2 Dec 2011, 19:59, archived)