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I would agree with John Smith a sad loss and seemed to be a man of integrity unlike Blair etc

is so depressing we had to suffer Blair/Brown and the clueless Osborne/Cameron muppets. As for Cleggo in bed with the Tories what a man of no real belief or substance.

I save my biggest distaste for Teresa May the biggest vacuous Tory rent a quote for Tory heartlands.

I remember several years ago during an interview probably close to the Tory Conference she bleated on about Welfare cheats having all their benefits removed after 3 convictions for fraud. When questioned about how many people this would effect in the previous year it was zero. Sounded good for the Tory faithful but lacked any substance.

Weasel words for weasel people and the Daily Mail. No real intelligent thought process about really changing affairs.

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spazzcaptain Misses Valin @, Mon 30 Sep 2013, 22:15, archived)

I tend to view distate for the Tories as a given, if I'm being honest

I didn't know about that particular interview -- I've been out of the country seven years and only just moved back where I can now have fun trying to decide who to vote for at the next election -- but it doesn't surprise me. I have no doubt that there are Tory politicians of integrity and intelligence who genuinely want the best for the country but whose politics differ from mine, but I don't think Teresa May is one of them because I think she's a fucking moron.

Edit: talking of Jack Straw, I did this once upon a time.

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boris the spider, Mon 30 Sep 2013, 22:20, archived)

I admire your optimism

I grew up from the Left view of things thinking that these people would want the best for the country and were motivated to do this. After the last Labour Govt and the Lib Dems jumping into be with the Tories I despair. It seems once in the Establishment and the trappings of power make them forget their roots and the people who voted for them.

There are a few of all parties who keep their ideals and beliefs but they get side lined for not being "on board" and trouble makers.

It seems now that any elected government with any promises soon get taken over by the Establishment,the City, money, status and their ideals soon get lost in the selfish need to fill their pockets rather than looking after their constituents.

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spazzcaptain Misses Valin @, Mon 30 Sep 2013, 22:38, archived)

hmm, i'm not aware of stating much optimism

so i may not have been as clear as i should have been. while it's true that i've got a lot of contempt for the vast majority of the tory ranks, i have a similar contempt for the vast majority of both labour and the lib dem's ranks. i'm no fan of career politicians, particularly those -- like cameron, like osbourne and like that man of the people clegg -- from extremely wealthy backgrounds. in their last parliament labour were plagued by these facile shadows of politicians, loathsome creatures like hazel blears who so far as i'm aware of never contributed the blindest thing of benefit to anyone.

i think we're in good agreement on this point... my politics is probably not particularly leftist as far as this board goes -- i'd describe myself as centre, in that on some issues i seem to agree with the right, others the left, and in others the right/left distinction is entirely meaningless, but one guy i do miss is tony benn. i may not have always agreed with his politics, and he may have been from a ludicrously wealthy background himself, but i never saw him suddenly change tack on something to help his career -- he seemed like he genuinely did have a sense of integrity and what you voted for he tried to give. we could do with a lot more people with a belief like tony benn (regardless of actual political content) and a lot fewer hazel fucking blears.

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boris the spider, Mon 30 Sep 2013, 22:54, archived)

Never quite sure about Tony Benn

But I had respect for Michael Foot who was monstered by the press for having ideals. Being devils advocate was Thatcher the right choice at the time as we were as a country knackered.

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spazzcaptain Misses Valin @, Mon 30 Sep 2013, 23:33, archived)

Too young to say if she was the right choice

though my guess would be "no". At least what she was was a solid choice - I wouldn't call her a career politican either. (Also, she did manage to break some of the hold the unions had over Labour and over politics. Union leaders should not play national politics. If they want to do that they can run for Parliament. But I'm very much looking back and listening to what other people said.)

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boris the spider, Mon 30 Sep 2013, 23:35, archived)

I always found Kenneth Clarke to be reasonable most of the time, 'gulp'

Some of the peers seem genuine, I do tend to put more trust in older people who have had a serious career/life than thrusting ambitious/greedy types who are likely to be positioning themselves for the next career.

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FeralCatMan Unusual disease collector., Mon 30 Sep 2013, 22:43, archived)

actually in about 1995 i swore to myself

that i would never vote tory until everyone on that front bench, with the possible exception of kenneth clarke, had nothing more to do with frontline tory politics. i still basically hold to that even though i disagree with quite a few things he's said: i won't vote tory until anyone who's had anything to do with this government has gone, with the possible exception of kenneth clarke.

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boris the spider, Mon 30 Sep 2013, 22:56, archived)

Changing the world

Having decided to change 'things' I entered the political affray as a candidate for one of the major farties (independancy is death). You simply have to say, think and do what the local party chairman wants or you don't get selected as a candidate. As an elected novice, you need expert help and advice to be on a local committee (be it roads, schools etc). After 5 years of this unless you are SAS trained against indoctrination, you don't have a chance to change your underpants alone never mind the system.

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Traducer, Tue 1 Oct 2013, 20:10, archived)