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# I don't think so.
Well, the organisation itself might be doing that, but the individual members have a genuine belief that they have a moral duty to try to save people's souls. Which is nice.

They've given me this one called 'What does the Bible really teach?'
Page 13 features a truly awesome composition. I'd take a picture if I had a camera.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:26, archived)
# that's the sad part innit
moral belief of the footsoldiers

I'm sure the folks at the bottom of scientology really believe it all too

bottom line: they all want your stuff.

whether it's money, power, or maybe even they really want your soul.


They make well produced material, with high quality art and photography, and general editorial control.

but they still want you and your stuff :)
(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:33, archived)
# I honestly don't know the details of how the JW organisation is funded,
I'd gathered it was all voluntary contributions but no doubt there's some kind of pressure on members, subtle or otherwise. Really comparing them to Scientology is a bit much though, they who explicitly charge you absurd sums of money for nonsensical services.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:37, archived)
# it's a matter of degree
I just don't like people coming to my door telling me god's will, like they have some special hotline directly to it, it's utterly arrogant.

I'm sure that these groups do good stuff in places, but I've no inclination towards any of them or their hubris.
(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:44, archived)
# they're entitled to their own faith and interpretation of the scripture,
and I don't mind them coming round to discuss it with me. Maybe they will tell me a few things I don't know, I'm not so arrogant as to think I have all the answers either.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:47, archived)
# I don't think I know everything, I've never claimed to, and never will.
sorry that I'm so arrogant that I don't want people who know better than me about everything I don't understand because I'm too stupid and have to be told lecturing me about how I'm going to be in eternal damnation unless I do what they say I do.


(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 15:03, archived)
# I've never had an experience like the one you describe.
Everyone has different knowledge and understanding and I see no harm in sharing it. You have to form your own opinions, of course, but there's no reason to be afraid of the idea that someone else's opinions might influence you in some way. The more different perspectives you can gather, the better, if you ask me.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 15:11, archived)
# "a moral duty to try to save people's souls"?
They are acting out of fear and self-interest. They don't want to go to hell.
Witnesses believe there are a limited number of places available in heaven after the apocolypse. Places will be reserved for those who have committed good deeds, chief among which is spreading the message.
The irony is that for every successful conversion, there's greater competition for seats in heaven. In my opinion the best questions to ask Witnesses are: 1) how many people will be allowed into the heaven (the answer is 144,000 I think)... 2) Doesn't every person you convert decrease your chances of going there? ... 3) Your god's really done a number on you guys hasn't he?
(I helped save b3ta! mofaha ┐( ˘_˘)┌ ʅ(́◡◝)ʃ, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:35, archived)
# I remember them coming around before 2000
ahhh that was fun

(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:38, archived)
# They don't believe in hell.
Yes, 144,000 go to heaven, but after that's full up everyone else righteous gets to live on a future Paradise Earth after the judgment. And it's the first 144,000, so it's full already by their reckoning.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:39, archived)
# So I guess the question is:
so all you can offer me is a second-class seat?
(I helped save b3ta! mofaha ┐( ˘_˘)┌ ʅ(́◡◝)ʃ, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:42, archived)
# not really,
heaven sounds like a lot of hard work if you ask me, they're going to be the ones who are going to have to run the place.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:44, archived)
# Yea but probably everyone who goes to heaven can do magic
like making mops and buckets come to life, as prophesised by Walt Disney in The Book Of Fantasia.
(I helped save b3ta! mofaha ┐( ˘_˘)┌ ʅ(́◡◝)ʃ, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:48, archived)
# they also become completely sexless beings
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:51, archived)
# Yes
Fear of death is the key.
Sadly, believing these superstitions may actually increase the fear of death rather than relieving it.
It is a little like alcoholism, a failed attempt to block pain.
(I helped save b3ta! FeralCatMan Long ads need comments sections, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:41, archived)
# Nail more or less on head.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:48, archived)
# Sadly
like alcoholics, they are terrified of admitting the problem.
Or facing the pain of sorting it out.
(I helped save b3ta! FeralCatMan Long ads need comments sections, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:52, archived)
# I don't know if it's quite that simple,
but I'll admit it is their emphasis on selling the Everlasting Life in Paradise Earth for the Righteous is what concerns me most. If there's a reward for doing God's will, are you really doing it for God or for yourself?
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:57, archived)
# It isn't that simple, nothing is.
Selling sounds like the key term here, a God franchise with merchandising rights?
I really don't know much about them specifically. However, using Occams razor, does a being that could create billions of galaxies really need a door to door sales force?
Does that (or any other coercive religion) seem realistic?
(I'm ignoring the cultural/historical contexts of major faiths - it's the interwebs)
(I helped save b3ta! FeralCatMan Long ads need comments sections, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 15:05, archived)
# I say selling, it's a loaded word,
which is why I hate it when people say I've got to "sell myself" to get a job... ugh...
We could get way too deep into theology/philosophy here, I don't personally see the need to go round people's doors like that but if free will is important God isn't going to "make" everyone believe, as simple as it might seem the world would become. If I, as a servant of God, believe it is right that such service should carry on, it makes sense to spread the idea around in some way or another.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 15:17, archived)
# We're nearly off the page here.
I still have yet to understand why an omnipotent being should need to have anyone believe in anything. If behaving well to other beings they have created is the issue why the need to pray.

(I'm enjoying this conversation)
(I helped save b3ta! FeralCatMan Long ads need comments sections, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 15:27, archived)
# Oh...
I'm enjoying it too, but alas I have to go to the shops. For now I'm going to cite Job 35:6-10, because I want to.
Gaz me if you want to continue this.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 15:40, archived)