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(1) Naz Shah MP (Labour) said that she thought Jews in Isreal should be relocated to the US to form a new state there.
(2) She was suspended from the Labour party, despite apologising, owing to this being an obviously anti-semitic thing to say.
(3) Ken Livingstone (Labour) did an interview, where he didn't say anything racist or anti-semitic.
(4) However, he DID attempt to defend Naz Shah, claiming that SHE hadn't said anything racist or anti-semitic, which was so obviously not the case.
(5) Now people are mixing up the concepts of BEING racist, and being an APOLOGIST for racism, so Livingstone appears to have been suspended for being racist, when he should have actually been suspended for being stupid.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 12:07, Share, Reply)
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(anti-historically) that Hitler was a zionist before he went mad and killed 6 million Jews. And he has plenty of form.
There are two elephants in the room.
1. Muslim anti-semitism. It's real. It's in the Koran and the Hamas charter.And it isn't just 'the israeli government is bad m'kay'
2. Left's hatred of Israel because it's backed by Amerikkka.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 12:13, Share, Reply)
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He has form, and is probably a little bit racist. I don't deny that.
But I don't think that Hitler quote was racist. It was factually inaccurate, utterly irrelevant, and preposterously stupid, but I don't think it was inherently racist.
I think they should've made it clear that he was suspended for being a massive bell-end rather than for being racist.
Don't get me wrong, I'm on your side... I think Naz Shah and Livingstone are appalling, but I also think that too many terms are being erroneously conflated and the debate is becoming muddied as a result. So let's call Livingstone what he is... a massive bell-end.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 12:24, Share, Reply)
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Into a comment about Israel by accident. He did it to offend and upset.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 13:00, Share, Reply)
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to offend and upset. It wouldn't be racist.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 14:00, Share, Reply)
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She did not say 'Jews'.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 12:13, Share, Reply)
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with the word Indians and ask yourself if that would be racist.
She obviously didn't mean the Muslim residents of Israel, so please don't feign wilful ignorance of the fact that this was obviously racist.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 12:18, Share, Reply)
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if you replace the word relocated with exterminated, you get a sense of what a monster she really is.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 12:27, Share, Reply)
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I can imagine that if Trump gets in, America could actually start gassing minorities.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 12:39, Share, Reply)
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Changing Israeli to Indian keeps it meaning almost exactly the same thing, just about an arbitrarily different ethnic group.
Saying Israelis should relocate is exactly as racist as saying Indians should relocate.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 14:03, Share, Reply)
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She has referred to "the Jews" in more than one tweet, and not in a flattering way.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 12:22, Share, Reply)
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feel free to liberally sprinkle the word 'Jews' into any other sentence she uses in the future when quoting her then.
(not trying to defend her here, but this thing about replacing words when quoting immediately undermines the credibility of the person doing the quoting.)
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 12:31, Share, Reply)
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A quote is a quote. If you insert words or replace words it's not a quote. Stupid fucking spastic.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 12:44, Share, Reply)
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ding ding ding
and don't act coy, you know you were implying she meant Jews when she said Israelis, and you aren't the only one implying or explicitly saying that it's what she said.
and I wouldn't have to point such stupidly fucking obvious things if you would stop misrepresenting people, or could even just serve up the full pint of your mind piss without spilling half of it down your trousers.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 12:53, Share, Reply)
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she said "The Jews are rallying". She used the word "Jews". Not "Israelis", "Jews". The exact word she used was "Jews". Fact. Google it you ill informed lying cunt.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/27/naz-shah-timeline-of-events-leading-to-mps-suspension-from-labour
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 13:11, Share, Reply)
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see the post that started this chain, where eViLegion says:
"said that she thought Jews in Isreal should be relocated to the US"?
that is not the same thing as (stupidly) suggesting Israel be subsumed into America, which would presumably entail some sort of optional relocation for EVERY Israeli, rather than just Jewish Israelis.
(I understand the actual post, just had the text "problem solved")
that she has talked about Jews in other contexts is not something I am disputing.... or talking about.
in this case (you know- the one I was actually talking about) it's pretty simple, so stop muddying the waters between talking about Israel and talking about 'The Jews', you simpleton.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 18:12, Share, Reply)
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what's with the attitude?
do you expect you can just tire people out with your shitty insults and 'win an argument' that way?
if you actually have a serious point to make, I suspect most people here will listen even if you DONT call them a cunt.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 18:24, Share, Reply)
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I know the one you were referring to. It didn't mention Jews. Another one did. You called me a liar when you said she never referred to Jews. She did. The attitude is uncool. But you're not fully appraised of all the facts so I got very angry and obnoxious. I'm sick of all the apologists, especially when they only know about one part of the story.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 18:50, Share, Reply)
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I'm not defending her comments, just want to make sure that if she is expelled, that its for the things she actually said.
and no, I don't know everything she said.
if only the sum of all her communications is considered anti-semitic, then lets say she that she said A, B and C. but can we not mash them together to save time.
"You called me a liar when you said she never referred to Jews"
also, I never call you a liar, and I didn't say that she never referred to Jews.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 19:42, Share, Reply)
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But your IMPLICATION, and not my inference, was crystal clear. Rest easy knowing that my egregious insults reflect very badly on me. My flaws are legion. Nevertheless, your fatous sixth common room Marxism is more tedious than toothache. However my aggressive and offensive replies to yours do undermine my credibility. You're still a cunt though, comrade. But I bear you no ill will in reality. I hope you and yours live long and prosper.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 20:51, Share, Reply)
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Racism is racism whether it's based on skin colour, ethnicity, religion, or nationality.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 14:51, Share, Reply)
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She's been pulled up on several social media posts. In the relocate Israel to America one, the word Jew isn't used, so some idiots are saying it's not naughty. However in another post she does use the word Jews, whereas had she used the word Israelis it wouldn't really been an issue, it was about a vote on something.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 15:03, Share, Reply)
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...since I'm definitely agreeing with you...?
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 16:42, Share, Reply)
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Can't you see I'm in full on argument mode? I've gone full retard.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 17:36, Share, Reply)
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arab israelis? It kinda proves that by 'israeli' she meant 'jew'
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 14:06, Share, Reply)
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So to equate the two just displays your own bigotry and ignorance.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 18:03, Share, Reply)
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That bigoted harridan Diane Abbott is still in their pin-up calendar ffs.
If a tory MP had made these comments the left would be howling like chimps at a free PG Tips convention.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 12:16, Share, Reply)
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0) guido fawkes digs up 2 year old facebook page, says they should be fired for anti-semitism
2.5) guido fawkes and newspapers say Labour now in crisis/chaos/meltdown etc
Not that I'm claiming some sort of conspiracy, nor that the aforementioned politicians' remarks weren't stupid.
It does seem to revolve around some people believing that:
- (anti)-zionism
- antisemitism
- criticism of the Israeli government's actions
- criticism of the concepts and beliefs of Judaism
...are all exactly the same thing.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 12:28, Share, Reply)
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Isn't that whole "She said that..." part of the problem? Why can't we have reports that tell us "She said..." with a copy and paste of what she actually said?
I still don't know what Naz Shah said because no one wants to tell me. Not even the BBC.
How can I decide if it is relevant to me, if I don't know what it is.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 12:29, Share, Reply)
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depicting the outline of the state of Israel within the outline of the United States of America, with the caption 'Problem solved'.
Although obviously to some around here 'Problem solved' means the same thing as 'Final solution' and off they go again...
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 13:45, Share, Reply)
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There some handy links below.
Ultimately I get the impression she thinks Israel is the big villain, jews are on land that historically belongs to muslims (factually incorrect), and a solution would be to move Israel's population to America, which would solve nothing if you think about it as virtually all the conflict in the Middle_east is rooted within branches of Islam itself. So she seems like a bit of a twat, as well as obviously a bigoted one
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 13:59, Share, Reply)
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order-order.com/2016/04/27/naz-shah-suspended-by-labour/
And there's a piece in the Guardian reminding us why Ken Livingstone is a racist cunt: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/28/antisemitism-rocked-labour-self-belief
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 13:49, Share, Reply)
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What did she say? Why can't anyone seem to answer that?
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 14:38, Share, Reply)
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order-order.com/2016/04/26/naz-shah-the-jews-are-rallying/
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 14:52, Share, Reply)
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I don't think I will voting for this terrible terrible woman. It's the honest journalists at The Mirror who are the real victims here. Who knows, if it wasn't for this womans actions, usVsTh3m may still be running.
( , Fri 29 Apr 2016, 15:35, Share, Reply)