If the aim is neutrality...
...then the factual reality of the sex does not need to be a secret, and the child can be brought up having it reinforced that their sex need not restrict them in their likes.
Keeping the sex secret is not neutral, and is a decision based on the idea that it is gendered interests and behaviour that define whether someone is a boy or a girl.
The conflation of sex and gender is deliberate, so consider this. Let’s say their child (for arguments sake biologically male), when supposedly free of gender expectations and roles, gravitates towards dresses, Barbie dolls etc.
Do you think that the parents
A: think it’s wonderful that their parenting has freed their little boy to find a way of being a boy that is different from how it might have been if he’d been pressured into traditional boy’s toys?
or
B: think it’s wonderful that they didn’t assign their child the identity “boy” at birth now it’s clear to them that their child is actually a girl?
If you think A, you want to read about the resignations from the NHS’s gender identity clinic
(, Tue 17 Sep 2019, 10:28, Reply)
I can't find...
...a relevant story relating to the gender identity clinic resignations - if you could share one it'd be helpful. Also, if you could elaborate on your question that'd help me to understand the point you're making.
From what you say otherwise, you appear to think that either:
(a) people's treatment of a child is in no way, or hardly influenced by their knowledge of its gender, or
(b) a child's character is moulded almost entirely by its parents, with very little influence from others.
If (a) then I recommend you watch the youtube video I posted above. If (b) I think it's naive to think that, particularly as a child grows older, parents have almost total control of its development.
Rather than thinking of this as a (hypothetically) boy behaving like a stereotypical girl, you could frame it in terms of gender characteristics that can be encouraged/discouraged. What if playing with dolls helps develop empathy, care and social skills? What if playing with balls and guns encourages hand-eye coordination? What if rough play encourages physical resilience and strength? I think you'd be mistaken to think that society doesn't discourage, or neglect to encourage, certain behaviours according to people's gender.
(, Tue 17 Sep 2019, 12:28, Reply)
I’ll try to find you a non paywalled article when I get a minute, in the mean time I’ll address your other points.
I’m not saying “people’s treatment of a child is in no way, or hardly, influenced by knowledge of gender”; i’m saying that a proportionate mitigation *of* the impact of existing in a culture where people will adhere to stereotypes is to watch out for where it happens and attempt to mitigate it, and to support a child to reject such assumptions. And that the act of hiding a child’s sex, and to not consider their biology descriptive of anything, when considered in an environment in which there is a growing clash of opinions as to whether an interest in behaviours and objects not usually associated with their sex signifies a child who rejects gender stereotypes, or signifies a child whose “gender identity” is in *conflict* with their biology, is not a neutral act but a political one, and a fair assessment of the parents intentions here requires knowing which side of this they come down on. The way this is framed depends greatly on the way in which parents and careers frame their child’s interests, and (as you’ll see if I can find you a non paywalled article) the framing of this is important, as many people who work in gender identity services have spoken of immense political pressure to “affirm” the transgender status of any children who present at a clinic, lest they be described as transphobic.
I definitely think children’s interests, abilities and personalities are shaped by a range of things and their parents have a limited role, BUT, the role parents do have is in framing the reality in which children exist - while kids might not like the implications of a parents belief, they tend not to reject that belief or think that it is wrong (see; religion). So if a child grows up in an environment where a male child is told that their biology doesn’t make them a boy or a girl but their feelings do, and then the child is free to explore what they like, and find that they like the things that tend to be liked by members of the opposite sex, what frame work does the child have to work within to conclude that they are anything other than a trans child? *especially* in a context where it is at least reasonable to believe that the parents believe that having a “trans child” is a thing to be celebrated (and I don’t think anyone can read that story and not conclude that the parents would be more delighted with the outcome of a male child saying “I’m a girl, I think”, rather than “can I have a spurs kit for my birthday please?”)
And I totally, absolutely agree that society imposes harmful expectations based on gender. The issue is that I think the solution is to combat the *expectations*, and not combat the idea that it’s the concepts of “male” and “female” that are wrong. Were we not in a political context where the idea of a “trans child” is uncontroversial, and where activists talk of saving children from “the wrong puberty” through hormone blockers, I’d be less concerned about what could be more akin to just bog standard woolly Modern Parents nonsense.
(, Tue 17 Sep 2019, 12:57, Reply)
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/03/07/nhs-transgender-clinic-accused-covering-negative-impacts-puberty/
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6897269/Workers-transgender-clinic-quit-concerns-unregulated-live-experiments-children.html
Apologies for the links to websites I wouldn’t normally link to. Left of centre papers won’t touch this at all, so ignore any political slant of the writer, and consider what staff are actually saying about this stuff.
(, Tue 17 Sep 2019, 13:01, Reply)
It sounds a bit like Eugenics through steralisation, but the parents are volunteering their kids for it.
(
MyFrontFellOff ; his mouth full of teddies, urinating defiantly, Tue 17 Sep 2019, 21:33,
Reply)
But everyone knows if you're born with a willy you should like football
(, Tue 17 Sep 2019, 18:58, Reply)
