Child named Anoush being raised in a gender neutral environment on a houseboat.
Alongside parents Jake and Hobbit. Jesus Christ...
Title:
The parents keeping their child's sex a secret
(, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 9:32, Reply)
Oh spare us your impotent indignant outrage at wankers.
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Prufrock Lucifer, son of the morning!, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 10:11,
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I wish there was a way to keep that phrase permanently in my clipboard.
:-)
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Thrill_My_Chinchilla is old and unimproved, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 21:21,
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Gender neutral environment?
I think the baby noshing on that ample bosom might be inclined to disagree.
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buffet_the_appetite_slayer ٩(●̮̃•)۶ jacked in to the ICE on, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 11:55,
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How was I made?
Well, I got my unspecified genitals and coupled them with their unspecified genitals and we shared genetic material, then you grew inside one of us and then you were born.
That will not cause any issues later at all.
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My Name was saying these words inside your head on, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 12:08,
Reply)
They've devised a fucking children's show based on the concept of gender neutrality too.
for all their crusty dreadlocked mates. I bet that room fucking stank.
(, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 12:35, Reply)
I guess the first question is
Which one's Jake and which one's Hobbit?
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The_cold_stare Coming here only when very, very bored, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 12:10,
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My first question to them would be
"what is wrong with you people?"
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Thrill_My_Chinchilla is old and unimproved, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 14:57,
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My first question to them would be
"How does the toilet on your houseboat work?"
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Mudface The web isn't callipygian, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 18:38,
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In this thread
People confuse gender for sex.
(edit: the idea, I suppose, is just to not let the kids sex define/dictate it's gender-- if they 'sync up' later on their own, I expect that'd also cool. Sex being defined by biology, Gender being a more fluid human construct.)
Why do you give a fuck what they call, or how they raise their kid, or what kind of house they live in?
(I agree that it's hardly 'news' though... was that the point? or are we just out for a bit of malice signaling?)
(, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 12:55, Reply)
fair enough
This probably won't surprise you, but when I weigh up:
The way these two want to raise their kid, versus, encouraging judgement and malice against those ways (or against them specifically).
I find the latter to be the more objectionable.
(, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 13:33, Reply)
Mrs. Penis fucking LOVED playing with Dinosaurs when she was a nipper.
She hated dolls. Hated pink frilly girl things. She was much more interested in traditionally masculine toys.
She didn't need to be raised in a 'gender neutral environment' in order to make those choices. She just needed to be given access to the toys that she wanted to play with.
Likewise, her parents didn't feel it necessary to impose that kind of neutrality onto her, nor make a big fucking song and dance about it:
"Do you want to play with dolly?"
"No!"
"Do you want to play with Skeletor?"
"YES!"
"Righto, then."
Her Mum wasn't particularly keen on her daughter playing with 'boy' toys - it wasn't actively encouraged, but nonetheless she let her get on with it.
That was the mid/late eighties, and that's about as 'gender neutral' as any parenting needs to be.
Mrs. Scrunt is now in her Mid-30's. She's definitely not what you'd call stereotypically 'girly' but she absolutely still has feminine traits and enjoys things that you'd associate with most women (dresses, makeup, jewellery, etc). She just didn't need any special coaching in order to develop her own identity.
The problem I have with these two fuds is that they're creating an issue where there isn't one and then needlessly overcomplicating it.
If your child has a penis, then address that child with male pronouns. If it has a vagina, then address it with female pronouns. If that child feels that his/her assigned gender does not align with their physical sex once they've developed an identity, they can by all means address the issue then.
Allowing little girls to play with cars and action figures and allowing little boys to play with dolls and makeup isn't exactly fucking groundbreaking - what else really needs to be done?
You don't need to be raised in some kind of fucking hippy houseboat zero gender environment by two clowns to realise that gender stereotyping is a bit 20th century. It's all very 'LOOK AT US!'.
(, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 14:03, Reply)
I will agree with everything in your post.....
but only if 'fuds' is now the official collective name for people who have to scream gender neutral ideology at every possible moment.
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NooShmoo It's a fantazmagorical pile of ultra bollocks, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 16:41,
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Deal.
It's a Scottish colloqiual term for vagina, so they'd hate that.
(, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 16:56, Reply)
sure
But, have you considered just raising your kids like that, and letting other people decide how to raise their own children?
Why do you feel the need to dictate the 'only acceptable' lifestyle of these people? it's such a small personal decision and doesn't actually effect you in any way, that I can't help wondering why you even give a fuck?
(, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 18:24, Reply)
Because for almost everyone in the world,
gender and sex are aligned and are in fact the same thing. An equally valid but different point of view is that some people confuse gender as being something different from sex. It's subjective so maybe everyone should shut up.
As for the "why do you care?"... We don't, but they're advertising their lifestyle on a national news program, either because they're attention seeking twats, or because they're attempting to spread their values to everyone else.
The REAL question is why do they feel entitled to make us care?
(, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 13:04, Reply)
Well, that's just an appeal to the masses
If almost everyone in the world is wrong, they should still *at least* learn what the words mean before they wade in with ignorant opinions.
And this is clearly the BBC scraping around for filler, they got asked, they said yes.
Fuck all this 'speading values' culture war nonsense, if they aren't advocating harm or hate, you always have the option to just ignore it.
Also, they can't 'make you care', you either do, or you don't. It's your *choice*.
(, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 13:11, Reply)
It was posted here, and people have given their opinions because that's what happens here.
If you hate those opinions you also have the option to ignore them. Incidentally, were people's opinions on gender ignorant before the word started to be redefined by sjws, or did they become so after?
They're trying to make me care by bringing it to my attention... I don't actually care but I'm capable of understanding that they're attempting to make me care about it. I don't actually have any strong opinion; but if asked to consider it, I'll do so, and then let you know what I think. Don't ask the question if you don't like the obvious answer.
(, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 14:17, Reply)
*applauds*
However, some people will always be looking to criticise, how can they be 'right' if they cannot find someone else to be 'wrong'.
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FeralCatMan Unusual disease collector., Mon 16 Sep 2019, 14:25,
Reply)
I don't think anyone is wrong.
Unless they come and tell me I'm wrong because I don't agree with their bullshit ideology.
(, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 15:36, Reply)
plot twist
(by your own logic)
Those two might say the very same of you.
The only difference is that you've told us instead of them directly... and of course your own ideology could never be someone else's bullshit ;)
(, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 18:10, Reply)
I'd say that a fairly significant difference is
I've neither sought out, nor agreed to, going on national television to inform people about how I'm superior.
Where that article was apropos of nothing, my responses have been in response to it.
I'm sure my ideology would be bullshit to them, but they'd never know because I have the good grace not to occupy their TV screen with my nonsense.
(, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 18:13, Reply)
Obviously there's no one 'correct' way to live
Ask yourself though, why is it you feel they are saying 'I am superior'.
To my mind, they're just showing people another way, and that why they got on the telly (/rando internet news item), because it's less ordinary/ novel.
No one is asking you to agree with it, it's just another thing that you now know some people think.
water off a ducks back, no?
(, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 18:35, Reply)
Possibly they're not trying to be superior.
I'm somewhat extrapolating from a significant majority of the "woke" people that I have encountered; they don't seem to tolerate it when I don't agree with them. Most times I've been subjected to a woke point of view it's as a preamble to getting uppity when I don't nod in agreement.
Possibly I'm doing these guys an injustice. To be fair to them, they weren't particularly unreasonable in that video, and they seem like decent people. Maybe I just hate everyone on TV.
(, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 19:12, Reply)
yeah, I hear you
Seems to be a lot of this polarization about, and people forgetting that it's ok to disagree and talk about things.
(, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 20:55, Reply)
NO IT ISN'T!
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MyFrontFellOff ; his mouth full of teddies, urinating defiantly, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 22:07,
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Why are you trying to shut down a debate on this?
If morons are going to get onto a soapbox and spout moronic opinions, it should be my choice whether I ignore them or get on a soapbox and point out how moronic they are.
Why does their opinion carry any more weight than mine?
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evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 16:08,
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It's interesting
as the arguments in place are less about the subject matter at hand (gender fluidity) and more about the context in which they are presented (LOOK AT NEW LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME)
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Fadgebadger Sweaty sumo wanks for everyone!, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 16:25,
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That's kinda the issue as far as I'm concerned.
You don't need to force gender fluidity on children. They are - and always have been more than capable of making their own choices about what toys to play with and what clothes to wear. All you need to do as a parent is to ensure that you don't make those choices seem like the wrong choices.
I'm going to be a bit presumptious here, but if their child is male - I bet Hobbit there would be a bit disappointed if he naturally chooses to gravitate towards traditionally male toys and steers away from the traditionally female. And I bet in that situation, there will be a bit more prompting from the parents than they'd like to admit.
At the end of the day, they're children. They change their minds about stuff fucking constantly. As long as they're not causing any harm to themselves, just fucking leave them to it.
You don't need to make a (literal) big song and dance about something kids have been doing since the concept of gender without any input from adults.
The issue these fuckwits should be tackling is not the child's imagined unwillingness to play with non gender-traditional toys, it's with some parent's unwillingness to allow their children to play with those non gender-traditional toys.
This whole thing is a lot more about them than it is about their poorly named son/daughter, who is likely going to end up with no end of issues when they're older - not because they were raised 'gender fluid', but because they've been raised by narcissistic fuckwit hippy parents on a bloody houseboat.
(, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 16:54, Reply)
^ what xhe said
It's the trumpeting The Message at kids I object to. You don't need to have any sort of single-issue workshop bullshit. Just teach them not to be cunts and let them get on with it.
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evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 17:09,
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I think you're right but mainly because I have more issue with the latter.
i care nothing for anyone's identity, choice, preference, whatever but the whole LOOK AT ME that is so embedded in culture these days is beyond me. If this 'couple' had carried on as they were, quietly followed their owns beliefs, morals or ideology...fair play.
But it's 'Look at how progressive we are! Look at how in tune with modernity we are! LOOK HOW WRONG YOU'VE BEEN!'
And don't even get me started on reality tv.....
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NooShmoo It's a fantazmagorical pile of ultra bollocks, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 16:55,
Reply)
That's what I said
It's your choice whether you care about this or not.
Bring some interesting opinions and fire away!
I'm not in any way 'shutting down a debate' on this, feel free to carry on.
All I find objectionable is the 'look at these fucking idiots' vibe.
I'm simply saying that *if* your opinion boils down to 'look at these fucking hippy clowns- jesus christ', then your opinion is dogshit, sorry, I don't owe you my agreement.
In this particular case, you haven't actually given your opinion yet, so it's hard to say what weight it carries.
I like to go on an opinion by opinion basis.
Hope that helps.
(, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 18:03, Reply)
So, you don't think these two are idiots?
I can't figure out whether you agree with their methods and are upset that most of us do not.
Or if you're just upset that i made fun of somebodies lifestyle/parenting choices.
(, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 18:33, Reply)
I don't know them
Their methods make no difference to me personally.
People should generally do what they like, and let others enjoy the same privileged.
And I'm not upset, I'm just telling you that:
A. your opinion on these two is of no value to anyone but yourself.
B. the manner in which is was stated makes you sound unreasonably angry.
(, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 18:45, Reply)
They're cunts, and they're going to raise a cunt kid. Hope that helps.
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evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 21:22,
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You fucking retract that bit about my cunt fucking kids!
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wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 22:06,
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Sterilising all nonconformists is the only sensible option, obviously.
(, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 18:28, Reply)
Couldn’t care less about how they raise their kid
Honestly, everyone should just get on with living their best life etc
But man I’d love to be able to afford to live on a houseboat. I’ve got s mate who had a boat for a while, and he described it as “a hole in the water to throw money into”
Expensive to buy, expensive to moor, nearly impossible to heat in the winter, terrible condensation issues, constantly leaking and in need of repair...
Bastards. I’m just jealous.
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LP, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 19:18,
Reply)
Be they Rich Greek Girls or Hippies.
Cause when you're laid in bed at night,
Watching roaches climb the wall,
If you called your Dad he could stop it all.
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MyFrontFellOff ; his mouth full of teddies, urinating defiantly, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 22:10,
Reply)
I assume Anoush will be home-schooled then.
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wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 20:44,
Reply)
..
to a sexually reproducing species I hope the universe won't render their efforts futile
(, Mon 16 Sep 2019, 23:47, Reply)
I find it
remarkable quite how many people on this thread have happily lit their personal outrage bonfire, seemingly before taking even a moment to engage with what's being said.
It's stated very clearly that their aim is to 'behave neutrally to our child, rather than trying to make them neutral' because 'so much gender bias is unconscious'. 'We're not trying to make them be anything; we just want them to be themselves.'
If you think this is total horlicks then watch this: youtu.be/nWu44AqF0iI
Perhaps those outraged by such a tactic should reflect on the fact that it reflects more poorly upon society and its stereotypical views of how men and women should behave, rather than upon the parents, who are merely trying to let their child's identity and personality develop without expectation or influence of what they 'should' be.
(, Tue 17 Sep 2019, 0:17, Reply)
i don't believe for a second that they have the stamina for it
i predict a messy separation and the kid growing up hating them both
(, Tue 17 Sep 2019, 6:25, Reply)
If the aim is neutrality...
...then the factual reality of the sex does not need to be a secret, and the child can be brought up having it reinforced that their sex need not restrict them in their likes.
Keeping the sex secret is not neutral, and is a decision based on the idea that it is gendered interests and behaviour that define whether someone is a boy or a girl.
The conflation of sex and gender is deliberate, so consider this. Let’s say their child (for arguments sake biologically male), when supposedly free of gender expectations and roles, gravitates towards dresses, Barbie dolls etc.
Do you think that the parents
A: think it’s wonderful that their parenting has freed their little boy to find a way of being a boy that is different from how it might have been if he’d been pressured into traditional boy’s toys?
or
B: think it’s wonderful that they didn’t assign their child the identity “boy” at birth now it’s clear to them that their child is actually a girl?
If you think A, you want to read about the resignations from the NHS’s gender identity clinic
(, Tue 17 Sep 2019, 10:28, Reply)
I can't find...
...a relevant story relating to the gender identity clinic resignations - if you could share one it'd be helpful. Also, if you could elaborate on your question that'd help me to understand the point you're making.
From what you say otherwise, you appear to think that either:
(a) people's treatment of a child is in no way, or hardly influenced by their knowledge of its gender, or
(b) a child's character is moulded almost entirely by its parents, with very little influence from others.
If (a) then I recommend you watch the youtube video I posted above. If (b) I think it's naive to think that, particularly as a child grows older, parents have almost total control of its development.
Rather than thinking of this as a (hypothetically) boy behaving like a stereotypical girl, you could frame it in terms of gender characteristics that can be encouraged/discouraged. What if playing with dolls helps develop empathy, care and social skills? What if playing with balls and guns encourages hand-eye coordination? What if rough play encourages physical resilience and strength? I think you'd be mistaken to think that society doesn't discourage, or neglect to encourage, certain behaviours according to people's gender.
(, Tue 17 Sep 2019, 12:28, Reply)
I’ll try to find you a non paywalled article when I get a minute, in the mean time I’ll address your other points.
I’m not saying “people’s treatment of a child is in no way, or hardly, influenced by knowledge of gender”; i’m saying that a proportionate mitigation *of* the impact of existing in a culture where people will adhere to stereotypes is to watch out for where it happens and attempt to mitigate it, and to support a child to reject such assumptions. And that the act of hiding a child’s sex, and to not consider their biology descriptive of anything, when considered in an environment in which there is a growing clash of opinions as to whether an interest in behaviours and objects not usually associated with their sex signifies a child who rejects gender stereotypes, or signifies a child whose “gender identity” is in *conflict* with their biology, is not a neutral act but a political one, and a fair assessment of the parents intentions here requires knowing which side of this they come down on. The way this is framed depends greatly on the way in which parents and careers frame their child’s interests, and (as you’ll see if I can find you a non paywalled article) the framing of this is important, as many people who work in gender identity services have spoken of immense political pressure to “affirm” the transgender status of any children who present at a clinic, lest they be described as transphobic.
I definitely think children’s interests, abilities and personalities are shaped by a range of things and their parents have a limited role, BUT, the role parents do have is in framing the reality in which children exist - while kids might not like the implications of a parents belief, they tend not to reject that belief or think that it is wrong (see; religion). So if a child grows up in an environment where a male child is told that their biology doesn’t make them a boy or a girl but their feelings do, and then the child is free to explore what they like, and find that they like the things that tend to be liked by members of the opposite sex, what frame work does the child have to work within to conclude that they are anything other than a trans child? *especially* in a context where it is at least reasonable to believe that the parents believe that having a “trans child” is a thing to be celebrated (and I don’t think anyone can read that story and not conclude that the parents would be more delighted with the outcome of a male child saying “I’m a girl, I think”, rather than “can I have a spurs kit for my birthday please?”)
And I totally, absolutely agree that society imposes harmful expectations based on gender. The issue is that I think the solution is to combat the *expectations*, and not combat the idea that it’s the concepts of “male” and “female” that are wrong. Were we not in a political context where the idea of a “trans child” is uncontroversial, and where activists talk of saving children from “the wrong puberty” through hormone blockers, I’d be less concerned about what could be more akin to just bog standard woolly Modern Parents nonsense.
(, Tue 17 Sep 2019, 12:57, Reply)
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/03/07/nhs-transgender-clinic-accused-covering-negative-impacts-puberty/
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6897269/Workers-transgender-clinic-quit-concerns-unregulated-live-experiments-children.html
Apologies for the links to websites I wouldn’t normally link to. Left of centre papers won’t touch this at all, so ignore any political slant of the writer, and consider what staff are actually saying about this stuff.
(, Tue 17 Sep 2019, 13:01, Reply)
It sounds a bit like Eugenics through steralisation, but the parents are volunteering their kids for it.
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MyFrontFellOff ; his mouth full of teddies, urinating defiantly, Tue 17 Sep 2019, 21:33,
Reply)
But everyone knows if you're born with a willy you should like football
(, Tue 17 Sep 2019, 18:58, Reply)