chichilla leads with gross generalisations, prufock counters with strawman
ad hominens must be next until we achieve godwins law
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Wed 25 Mar 2020, 4:18,
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Someone mis-uses 'strawman'. Bingo, full house!
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Prufrock Lucifer, son of the morning!, Wed 25 Mar 2020, 8:44,
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And also, comparatively minor, but
I didn’t open this, I was responding to something posted that I thought was disgusting, others may disagree, but that’s why it provoked the response it did. If people want me to change/clarify my comment to “Self-declared Republicans and Tories in positions of power and influence, almost always seem to be money grabbing arseholes” then fair enough.
It also doesn’t mean Self-declared Democrats/Labour/Liberals etc, can’t be money grabbing arseholes as well.
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Thrill_My_Chinchilla is old and unimproved, Wed 25 Mar 2020, 9:55,
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* person makes claim that republicans like money more than people
* instead of addressing claim, you reformulate his claim by extending both the scope of his subject from "republicans" to "all people who disagree with you", and from a specific clause "like money more than people" to a purposefully exagerated one "are evil"
-this is pretty textbook strawman, prufrock, and I'm afraid I've applied it accurately (def: an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument or oversimplifying and/ore exaggerating (sometimes grossly exaggerating) an opponent's argument. It's an informal fallacy, so the definitions vary somewhat, but you get the general idea. Nevertheless your example does matchup quite neatly)
I'm always happy to educate people, particularly one as frequently pedantic about language as yourself. Though you are quite correct that it is a term that's more often than not misapplied or misunderstood, including by you in your own case, it seems. So much so that I avoid it, associating it these days with poor argument through misuse, preferring to reply as I see fit rather than posit a label as counterargument. I only use it this instance as it fitted my joke, which was to encapsulate your typical internet argument progression with far greater brevity than this reply
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Wed 25 Mar 2020, 12:42,
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my waffle aside, fuck it shits me when people misapply terms like strawman and just sit there smugly like they've made some Churchillian riposte
It's like an army of dickwads have suddenly become vaguely acquainted with labels for argumentative fallacies and think any usage lends their argument some sort of fucking intellectual gravitas totally inevident in their discourse. So I'm with you there, man
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Wed 25 Mar 2020, 13:33,
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Partial strawman I'd say.
I'll give you that extending the republicans to all people disagreed with counts.
But it's not a necessarily a strawman to take loving money more than people and converting it to evil, if that was a clearly intended implication in the original comment.
It would be churlish to try to argue that Chinchilla doesn't think that loving money more than people is evil.
(, Wed 25 Mar 2020, 14:02, Reply)
I like this
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evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Wed 25 Mar 2020, 20:04,
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Not necessarily?
The resonance of Timothy 6 10 is as clear as a bell even in a post Christian society.
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Prufrock Lucifer, son of the morning!, Wed 25 Mar 2020, 18:25,
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I'm allowing for the technical possibility
that he doesn't think it's evil. How generous of me.
(, Wed 25 Mar 2020, 18:37, Reply)
Genesis 27:11
youtu.be/UOsYN---eGk
This is /Links after all.
(Beyond The Fringe, Alan Bennett as a vicar talking absolute rubbish)
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Thrill_My_Chinchilla is old and unimproved, Wed 25 Mar 2020, 20:21,
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so, ignoring the "republicans > all people" distortion
you think it follows from "republicans like money more than people" which is a comparative proposition and a humanist one at that, it follows that because there is a christian proverb associating money with evil, his point was some sort of christian motivated criticism? And we are supposed to immediately understand this was context you meant from "all people who disagree with you are evil"? Pretty tortuous inference. It's still very strawmanny, prufrock, even if your intention was to recharacterise his argument as a religious values criticism, that's definitely not evident from his claim. I mean, I could remind you again of the definitions but if you haven't grasped them by now it seems a little pointless. Still, "The resonance of Timothy 6 10 is as clear as a bell even in a post Christian society" wins you pseuds corner for the day. classic
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Wed 25 Mar 2020, 23:25,
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You don't read Pseuds Corner much, do you?
Do you even know what pseud means or is it a term like strawman you indiscriminately chuck around when desperately trying to tread water?
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Prufrock Lucifer, son of the morning!, Thu 26 Mar 2020, 6:34,
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christ, you're really desperate to save face after being publicly shown to be wrong, aren't you? Will it repair your fragile ego if I admit you're right this time?
Ok, Prufock, posting "The resonance of Timothy 6 10 is as clear as a bell even in a post Christian society" in a b3ta thread about republicans is in no way some pretentious quasi-intellectual tosh worthy of pseuds corner. you got me bang to rights. fair play. How clever you are, etc.
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Thu 26 Mar 2020, 8:05,
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Isn't it about time for your nap?
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Prufrock Lucifer, son of the morning!, Thu 26 Mar 2020, 11:49,
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Well, I’m definitely worse than Hitler was at some things
I’m a terrible dancer, and haven’t organised the gassing or lynching of a single Jew, so he was much better than me at those tasks, but then I also have no aspirations to be successful at either of them anyway.
I think I’m probably a better Tetris player than he would have been. Also probably better than him at getting things off the top shelf of places, since he was comparatively short.
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Thrill_My_Chinchilla is old and unimproved, Wed 25 Mar 2020, 11:06,
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