Yup
Surely most people will know at least one person who has committed suicide for instance? You can't get more of a stark example that something more than just "being a bit glum" is going on?
This is probably the most moving and expressive ways of describing it I've seen: (cant remember who posted the Taylor Mali stuff a while back, but thanks for introducing me to him, just brilliant)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESrzN-JkKsM
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Jorvic, Sun 6 Mar 2011, 17:20,
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I don't think I know anyone who killed themselves,
I know people who have made attempts. My old housemate used to invite all his goth friends round for parties and we had to hide all the razor blades to stop them cutting themselves in the bathroom. But then we realised it was better to leave them there because they'd just smash our glasses instead, and a clean razor blade is probably a better thing for them to do it with.
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Sun 6 Mar 2011, 17:40,
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Eesh, not the kind of party I'de like to go to :S
Maybe I'm unusual in that I've known two, a friend and an uncle, as well as seeing the aftermath of a friends father's suicide. One of those things, when you're out of an episode you say "I could never do that to my friends and family", just when you're in an episode you simply don't see it in those terms, quite the opposite infact. Thus the interesting parity with schizophrenia, how you're whole understanding of your life can be totally turned on its head? Its a very powerful thing, which is why I think there should be a lot more understanding of it, and more attempts to break down the taboos surrounding it. I think Stephen Fry's documentary a few years ago was very good at that, need more to be made though.
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Jorvic, Sun 6 Mar 2011, 17:50,
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I never got so bad as to seriously consider killing myself,
I just wanted my life to stop being terrible. And it was terrible. I was never convinced it was only something wrong with my brain, but my doc just put me on one sort of pills after another as if eventually we'd find the right one that would magically stop me from being a social outcast. It made me feel dismissed, this assumption that my feelings were only down to bad chemicals, maybe for some people that is the case but just as happy people can't understand that there can be something wrong with your thinking, doctors don't seem to get that there can be something wrong with your experiences. They are trained to imagine you as a machine, I guess.
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Sun 6 Mar 2011, 18:02,
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circumstances don't help.
www.b3ta.com/questions/letterstheywillneverread/post658138
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TheSundaeLunch I'm a fucking shrub, alright?, Sun 6 Mar 2011, 18:21,
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I don't get what you are telling me here,
this reads like a circumstance, and not a chemical. Sadly, this circumstance is in the past and therefore not liable to change, although perhaps you can change your interpretation of it.
Nevertheless, I'm not saying that chemicals are never the problem, and circumstances always are, I'm saying that circumstances were my problem, and there is not a one-size-fits-all solution to every case of depression. Some people do get wonky brain chemistry. Other people get dealt a genuinely shit hand now and then.
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Sun 6 Mar 2011, 18:27,
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And that was a genuinely shit hand that you got dealt right there,
but it really wasn't your fault, as much as you feel that it was the consequence of your decision, no reasonable person could possibly expect you to have foreseen it.
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Sun 6 Mar 2011, 18:44,
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Sorry to hear that Sundae
That's something no one should feel responsibility for, especially from the age of 15. Hope you're working through it?
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Jorvic, Sun 6 Mar 2011, 18:34,
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Long time ago now.
But I feel it, most days. Sometimes for 20 seconds, sometimes longer.
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TheSundaeLunch I'm a fucking shrub, alright?, Sun 6 Mar 2011, 18:46,
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I suppose it boils down to the nature nurture thing?
I think certainly people can be genetically predisposed to depression (there's a family history of it with me, and I cant think of any experiences per say that could have caused it) but also I think someone's experiences definitely can be a major if not all encompassing factor, which is possibly where CBT can be most effective?
Back when I did Psychology AS level there was a good explanation of another way of seeing the nature nurture argument. With Autism it was argued that its a bit like seed which needs the right conditions to grow? So someone could be genetically predisposed towards autism but it would require certain experiences (I'd imagine difficult to avoid or define experiences) for that predisposition to develop into autism?
I'm sorry to hear that your experience with your doctor left you feeling that way? I guess there are as many types of depression as there are people, there's no Haynes manual for the mind. GPs obviously have to know a certain amount about a lot, which is why there needs to be more mental health care provision so they can refer patients to more specialist diagnosis?
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Jorvic, Sun 6 Mar 2011, 18:25,
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I imagine that each side can induce the other,
futile circumstances disturb your brain chemistry, and brain chemistry makes your circumstances seem more futile than they really are. Perhaps when this happens it doesn't matter so much which one came first as long as you can break the cycle, but if the original cause is still there when you come off the meds, you'll only end up back on them again.
I had to practically beg to be referred to a specialist, and then I was on a waiting list for months, and eventually my therapist was bloody useless.
What I really needed was some kind of coaching in my social skills, because basically I've been bullied since I started school with jam jar glasses and a funny accent, was too intellectual for my own popularity at a rough state comprehensive, and then wound up in a university with a seeming public-school educated majority. As a result I ended up finding it difficult to relate to people face-to-face.
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Sun 6 Mar 2011, 18:38,
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I think what you were talking about is the difference between reactive depression and clinical depression
The two can overlap but anti-depressants are only really effective for clinical depression.
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Sheriff John Bunnell https://twitter.com/thewonderfulgam, Mon 7 Mar 2011, 0:18,
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A B3tan
commited suicide not too long ago. Seemed a nice guy too; just mixed up. Depression and suicide don't always go hand in hand. One of the clever agonies of depression is knowing how suicide will make others feel. There were times I considered it. But to die that way would make my dad think he had failed, and he hadn't. Or some poor train driver who might always wonder if he could have stopped in time. Even in death, you heap pain on others. The sort of pain that you can't stand in the first place. It is no win.
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TheSundaeLunch I'm a fucking shrub, alright?, Sun 6 Mar 2011, 18:00,
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I think my dad thinks that anyway,
he keeps trying to convince me I'm autistic or something for having no ambition, and I don't think my mum will ever forgive me for not wanting to learn a musical instrument when I was at school.
I keep meaning to read this guy's book
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Sun 6 Mar 2011, 18:06,
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