Economically speaking
Yes, jolly good point.
Purely selfishly I agree with Mr. Plexis though, speaking as a musician. Nothing about the music industry enables me to make better music, rather the opposite, whilst giving me a minisule chance at making a shed load of money by doing so.
The Music Industry: marvellous for industry, shit for music.
(Disclaimer: having got to this point in time where I don't need them to discover geographically remote stuff any more).
*edit* and I like your point below re: access to music. Good point. So yes its also good for access to music still in a lot cases. I would still argue at the expense of the music itself, but there's a balance to be struck there for artists and consumers I guess.
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Throat And Ice Pie I see dem tatties dere., Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:27,
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so if you dont mind me asking
how do you make enough money to live as musician?
(, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:31, Share, Reply)
I most certainly DO
not.
:)
You see a lot of the illegal download crowd arguing that all music should be free free and that artist should subsidise their own output. And that they should be grateful that anyone wants to listen.
I don't really agree with this (and strongly object to the second bit), its obvious why they think that, but I don't have a problem with the idea of having to do a number of things to make sure I can always pay the bills, not just rely on creative output.
"Classical" / "Serious" / "Art" music has been dealing with this for a long time (I seem to remember studying a long and boring essay by Boulez or Babbit about how composers would have to rely on a range of activities to enable their creative work). Folk who wanted to spend all day writing, but had to teach etc. as well.
For me it translates to a mixture of writing, recording and performing my own stuff which doesn't always pay for itself and probably never will consistently (side argument - would I change it if it meant it did? probably not), teaching, producing and recording other people and a few days a week of non-music work.
It's bloody hard work and I inevitably have to take a lot of risks with money and time.
Would it be nice to do nothing but create full time? Yes. I don't have any ethos about not signing to a label or anything, I've just sort of started from the position of assuming that won't happen and if I want to put my stuff out I have to do it myself.
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Throat And Ice Pie I see dem tatties dere., Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:44,
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then you need a record industry right
maybe a better run not so fucking greedy one, but a recording industry would enable you to generate more income from doing what you love no?
but i sympathise man, i'm a comedy-ish writer and work for an ad agency, i pay the bills and get some of my ideas made without hideous changes...
but im glad there is such an industry that says "are you creative, would you like some proper money to live and that...come do this for a bit...just dont take it too seriously"
sadly its the last part people forget and become massive arseholes!
(, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:55, Share, Reply)
I think
You're sort of touching on a middle ground which I think is what I hope will happen. I almost see the music industry splitting in two and there will be one model which deals with fast-food music and another that deals with the stuff the creators and consumers genuinely care about. I think its sort of happening already, but with the funding imbalances you're describing. And I agree with you, I'm glad about a lot of what the traditional industry has done for various people.
The way I see it, there's nothing to worry about from either side of the coin. As a music consumer I see no reason to rage about x-facor, overproduced R&B or the downfall of the traditional industry model - its become something that hold no interest for me whatsoever and just plain doesn't affect me:
As an audience, the music I want to listen to (what I describe as "honest music", a pretentious genre I made up for when people ask me what I like :)) still gets made and I still get access to it, I just have to work a bit harder to find it and accept the occasionally lower production values - something I have absolutely no problem with and honestly prefer.
As a musician I can still make the music I want to make. I just have to try a bit harder to make it 100% what I want it to be :).
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Throat And Ice Pie I see dem tatties dere., Tue 7 Jun 2011, 14:06,
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^This
Musicians will continue making music, let's buy it directly from them or let them get revenue from a streaming music service.
If a few thousand people lose their jobs, well that's sad, but technology has a way of doing that.
There's a whole infrastructure of admin, press and bullshit related to the music industry that the world can happily do without.
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:33,
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i'm a shepherd
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:40,
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so theres
no one in the sheep industry who does admin?
theres no press or magazines devoted to those who shepard and need sheparding tools?
cos according to your logic...they could all just do with getting fired?
(, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:43, Share, Reply)
Yes, being a shepherd is very much like the music industry.
Infact, they're identical.
Glad we cleared this up.
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:48,
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so its the about what they create
one industry creates music, the other food?
im sorry why are people who facilitate music less job deserving than those who facilitate anything else?
(, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:51, Share, Reply)
Some interesting thought provoking viewpoints up there^
hadn't really thought of it that way, but is this therefore the death of the big multi-million concert/tour and the like!?
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..wil, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:41,
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I doubt it, the big sellers will always have sponsorship/endoresements etc.
As well as money from merchandising should they wish to sell it.
Just a few thoughts, as I see it.
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:45,
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Not something
any chap could do from home on his own tho, is it, really? Is what I mean. If the big music companies fell, we would lose the whole multimillion concert with huge sets, lavish videos, merchandising and tours thing, surely? You need paid staff, advertising, organising and enacting ticket sales and all of that for all that to happen, being a musician would forever be a poor man's game done purely as a hobby if all that went away... ?
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..wil, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:55,
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Not from day one, no
But its not necessarily out of reach of the ordinary fella, via sponsorship etc. It would take longer and require a massive amount of personal risk, but that's being a business-person. Which is what the independant musician has to be.
Your list is quite telling though - all we're losing here is industry. None of this has anything to do with music, all these things are the accoutrements (sp?) of the mythology the industry has built up. Take it all away and you're still left with a band and their songs, a will to perform and an audience. Which is all you need.
*edit* Also mythology - the concept that a hobby musician is not a musician until he is in the employ of the music industry! I've bought albums in the last three years that were written, funded and released by people who had to work on building sites to put them out and will have continue to do so to continue paying for them. Most of them, in terms of musicianship and integrity, outstrip most of what you could take off the shelves in HMV. :)
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Throat And Ice Pie I see dem tatties dere., Tue 7 Jun 2011, 14:13,
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Well I think we should get the ball rolling by you posting links to your own music/site/shop and anyone else you'd like to share.
Huzzah!
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 14:25,
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Haha.
I'll be run out of town as a spamcunt. :). See profile if you're interested, its not on the whole B3ta's cup of tea so I don't tend to bang on too much. Have posted the odd track in the past though.
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Throat And Ice Pie I see dem tatties dere., Tue 7 Jun 2011, 14:31,
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Don't be silly, no one will mind, just post a whole lot of indie music artists you know as well as your own.
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 14:33,
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Righty hoi.
www.myspace.com/fraseranderson
www.myspace.com/theexistenceofharveylord
www.myspace.com/eftm
People who I think have put out outstanding music at one point or another completely under their own steam. All a matter of taste though innit.
Me:
soundcloud.com/jamesedgeandthemindstep
Also loads of people one here. Tickle, for example, has been posting some great stuff recently.
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Throat And Ice Pie I see dem tatties dere., Tue 7 Jun 2011, 15:12,
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An indepenent artist can easily use Youtube and other free sites to get their name and music out there.
As well as sell their own merchandise, mp3's, tunics etc.
But you're right, tours, festivals etc require money, and where does it come from?
Not from some guy living on beans with his casio keyboard.
So, I don't know. Some form of corporate sponsorship I suppose, you can't get away from them.
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 14:20,
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gonna sound like cunt when i say this....
your enthusiasm for change is enviable,
your understanding of the way works is un-reaslistic and focuses around what YOU do....assuming that all people are similar to you,
whats good for the goose isn't good for the gander.
(, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 14:31, Share, Reply)