Kaiser Chiefs new AWESOME MARKETING PLOY
Seriously, if you have to pay for mp3's, this is definitely the way to do it.
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SugarSpunSister Yeah, whatever, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:10,
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If you could only make it not by the Kaiser Chiefs...
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barryheadwound Mul-ti-pass? Multipass!, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:16,
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Well yes, there is this...
I imagine interactive downloads will become very much the done thing soon enough
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SugarSpunSister Yeah, whatever, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:19,
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Call me a fuddy-duddy old traditionalist...
But I think there's something to be said for a musician saying to their audience "This is my music. This is the sequence in which I feel it is best presented. I have worked hard to make this album the best it can be. Please enjoy".
Rather than "Here's a load of generic crap. Listen to it however you like 'cos frankly it all sounds pretty much the same. Go fish."
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barryheadwound Mul-ti-pass? Multipass!, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:29,
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No, I get you
but like I said down there, I think the real problem with mp3s is the fact you're paying for something you never actually get to really interact with. This is a creative idea that encourages people to engage in the music they're buying again.
Granted it's no pull-the-record-out-the-sleeve-flip-it-around-and-hit-the-needle-to-the-groove, but it's a start :)
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SugarSpunSister Yeah, whatever, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:33,
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Yeah it's a nice idea, but doesn't say much for their views on their music IMHO.
I mean - can you imagine for example Blood Sugar Sex Magic being in any other order?
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barryheadwound Mul-ti-pass? Multipass!, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:38,
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Not the best example because I don't particularly rate that album :p
But no, I absolutely get what you mean. but let's be fair here, it's the Kaiser Chiefs, a mediocre indie band in a world full of mediocre indie fans. This method works for them perfectly. But this idea opens up a wealth of other possibilities for other bands who might have to accept that mp3s are the done thing now but still want to do something cool for their fans. Which is ace, really.
Meanwhile I hope vinyl never dies for old-fashioned types like you and I. I likes 'em round, black and covered in ridges.
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SugarSpunSister Yeah, whatever, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:47,
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I could not agree with this more
*tries to agree more*
...nope.
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Tab Hunter Make this useless process end and so, begin again, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:43,
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^This
I recently started paying for Spotify Unlimited and I doubt I'll download an mp3 ever again, not that I have in about two years.
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:19,
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Ooh thanks for the tip!
Altho what do you do for music on the go?
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..wil, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:30,
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you would need a Premium account which you would have on your phone
also, if you can try OnLive, though you need unlimited broadband, I reckon it will do for games what Spotify has done for music
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:43,
Reply)
unfortunately
spotify does not generate the royalty revenues to save the recording industry...
(, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:31, Reply)
Nope...
www.informationisbeautiful.net/2010/how-much-do-music-artists-earn-online/
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SugarSpunSister Yeah, whatever, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:33,
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its odd isn't it:
the internet democratises music!
only gaga makes money on spotify.
(, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:11, Reply)
so?
let it collapse
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:44,
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cos thats what we need right now
a couple of million people out of jobs.
(, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:47, Reply)
Economically speaking
Yes, jolly good point.
Purely selfishly I agree with Mr. Plexis though, speaking as a musician. Nothing about the music industry enables me to make better music, rather the opposite, whilst giving me a minisule chance at making a shed load of money by doing so.
The Music Industry: marvellous for industry, shit for music.
(Disclaimer: having got to this point in time where I don't need them to discover geographically remote stuff any more).
*edit* and I like your point below re: access to music. Good point. So yes its also good for access to music still in a lot cases. I would still argue at the expense of the music itself, but there's a balance to be struck there for artists and consumers I guess.
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Throat And Ice Pie I see dem tatties dere., Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:27,
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so if you dont mind me asking
how do you make enough money to live as musician?
(, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:31, Reply)
I most certainly DO
not.
:)
You see a lot of the illegal download crowd arguing that all music should be free free and that artist should subsidise their own output. And that they should be grateful that anyone wants to listen.
I don't really agree with this (and strongly object to the second bit), its obvious why they think that, but I don't have a problem with the idea of having to do a number of things to make sure I can always pay the bills, not just rely on creative output.
"Classical" / "Serious" / "Art" music has been dealing with this for a long time (I seem to remember studying a long and boring essay by Boulez or Babbit about how composers would have to rely on a range of activities to enable their creative work). Folk who wanted to spend all day writing, but had to teach etc. as well.
For me it translates to a mixture of writing, recording and performing my own stuff which doesn't always pay for itself and probably never will consistently (side argument - would I change it if it meant it did? probably not), teaching, producing and recording other people and a few days a week of non-music work.
It's bloody hard work and I inevitably have to take a lot of risks with money and time.
Would it be nice to do nothing but create full time? Yes. I don't have any ethos about not signing to a label or anything, I've just sort of started from the position of assuming that won't happen and if I want to put my stuff out I have to do it myself.
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Throat And Ice Pie I see dem tatties dere., Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:44,
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then you need a record industry right
maybe a better run not so fucking greedy one, but a recording industry would enable you to generate more income from doing what you love no?
but i sympathise man, i'm a comedy-ish writer and work for an ad agency, i pay the bills and get some of my ideas made without hideous changes...
but im glad there is such an industry that says "are you creative, would you like some proper money to live and that...come do this for a bit...just dont take it too seriously"
sadly its the last part people forget and become massive arseholes!
(, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:55, Reply)
I think
You're sort of touching on a middle ground which I think is what I hope will happen. I almost see the music industry splitting in two and there will be one model which deals with fast-food music and another that deals with the stuff the creators and consumers genuinely care about. I think its sort of happening already, but with the funding imbalances you're describing. And I agree with you, I'm glad about a lot of what the traditional industry has done for various people.
The way I see it, there's nothing to worry about from either side of the coin. As a music consumer I see no reason to rage about x-facor, overproduced R&B or the downfall of the traditional industry model - its become something that hold no interest for me whatsoever and just plain doesn't affect me:
As an audience, the music I want to listen to (what I describe as "honest music", a pretentious genre I made up for when people ask me what I like :)) still gets made and I still get access to it, I just have to work a bit harder to find it and accept the occasionally lower production values - something I have absolutely no problem with and honestly prefer.
As a musician I can still make the music I want to make. I just have to try a bit harder to make it 100% what I want it to be :).
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Throat And Ice Pie I see dem tatties dere., Tue 7 Jun 2011, 14:06,
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^This
Musicians will continue making music, let's buy it directly from them or let them get revenue from a streaming music service.
If a few thousand people lose their jobs, well that's sad, but technology has a way of doing that.
There's a whole infrastructure of admin, press and bullshit related to the music industry that the world can happily do without.
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:33,
Reply)
i'm a shepherd
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:40,
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so theres
no one in the sheep industry who does admin?
theres no press or magazines devoted to those who shepard and need sheparding tools?
cos according to your logic...they could all just do with getting fired?
(, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:43, Reply)
Yes, being a shepherd is very much like the music industry.
Infact, they're identical.
Glad we cleared this up.
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:48,
Reply)
so its the about what they create
one industry creates music, the other food?
im sorry why are people who facilitate music less job deserving than those who facilitate anything else?
(, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:51, Reply)
Some interesting thought provoking viewpoints up there^
hadn't really thought of it that way, but is this therefore the death of the big multi-million concert/tour and the like!?
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..wil, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:41,
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I doubt it, the big sellers will always have sponsorship/endoresements etc.
As well as money from merchandising should they wish to sell it.
Just a few thoughts, as I see it.
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:45,
Reply)
Not something
any chap could do from home on his own tho, is it, really? Is what I mean. If the big music companies fell, we would lose the whole multimillion concert with huge sets, lavish videos, merchandising and tours thing, surely? You need paid staff, advertising, organising and enacting ticket sales and all of that for all that to happen, being a musician would forever be a poor man's game done purely as a hobby if all that went away... ?
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..wil, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:55,
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Not from day one, no
But its not necessarily out of reach of the ordinary fella, via sponsorship etc. It would take longer and require a massive amount of personal risk, but that's being a business-person. Which is what the independant musician has to be.
Your list is quite telling though - all we're losing here is industry. None of this has anything to do with music, all these things are the accoutrements (sp?) of the mythology the industry has built up. Take it all away and you're still left with a band and their songs, a will to perform and an audience. Which is all you need.
*edit* Also mythology - the concept that a hobby musician is not a musician until he is in the employ of the music industry! I've bought albums in the last three years that were written, funded and released by people who had to work on building sites to put them out and will have continue to do so to continue paying for them. Most of them, in terms of musicianship and integrity, outstrip most of what you could take off the shelves in HMV. :)
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Throat And Ice Pie I see dem tatties dere., Tue 7 Jun 2011, 14:13,
Reply)
Well I think we should get the ball rolling by you posting links to your own music/site/shop and anyone else you'd like to share.
Huzzah!
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 14:25,
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Haha.
I'll be run out of town as a spamcunt. :). See profile if you're interested, its not on the whole B3ta's cup of tea so I don't tend to bang on too much. Have posted the odd track in the past though.
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Throat And Ice Pie I see dem tatties dere., Tue 7 Jun 2011, 14:31,
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Don't be silly, no one will mind, just post a whole lot of indie music artists you know as well as your own.
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 14:33,
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Righty hoi.
www.myspace.com/fraseranderson
www.myspace.com/theexistenceofharveylord
www.myspace.com/eftm
People who I think have put out outstanding music at one point or another completely under their own steam. All a matter of taste though innit.
Me:
soundcloud.com/jamesedgeandthemindstep
Also loads of people one here. Tickle, for example, has been posting some great stuff recently.
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Throat And Ice Pie I see dem tatties dere., Tue 7 Jun 2011, 15:12,
Reply)
An indepenent artist can easily use Youtube and other free sites to get their name and music out there.
As well as sell their own merchandise, mp3's, tunics etc.
But you're right, tours, festivals etc require money, and where does it come from?
Not from some guy living on beans with his casio keyboard.
So, I don't know. Some form of corporate sponsorship I suppose, you can't get away from them.
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 14:20,
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gonna sound like cunt when i say this....
your enthusiasm for change is enviable,
your understanding of the way works is un-reaslistic and focuses around what YOU do....assuming that all people are similar to you,
whats good for the goose isn't good for the gander.
(, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 14:31, Reply)
Interesting idea though.
Though it seems like an act of desperation.
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:23,
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blimey...can't do anything right can they...
bands dont support downloads = you money grabbing evil cunts
bands allowing downloads and free-choice = desperate bastards.
(, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:31, Reply)
it's all about streaming
as i see it
or buying directly from the bands themselves
i dunno
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:45,
Reply)
but did you see the graph?
to make 0.000000pence a month the artist has to get 4 million plays of thier song....
how is that gonna work?
(, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:54, Reply)
What you're forgetting is that it's still early days for streaming music services, especially Spotify.
Which is actually being blocked in the US at the moment by Apple, I believe.
Once it's more popular the revenues will go up.
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:10,
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what your forgetting is
that its a minority of people in the world who have computers and access to high speed internet connections...
untill that gap is bridged we need a recording industry... and the millions of people that work in it (not just ridiculously wealthy execs but normal people too) need a job.
if the industry goes tits up, then the facilities to accommodate the industry become damaged, and voila, less access to lots of music...its annoying that the execs are fucking it up...but the old men in suits tend to do that...
and what if your country bans or restricts the internet...they can also restrict the type of music you consume.
just a thought really.
(, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:18, Reply)
Why desperation?
It's clever. Interaction is what's missing from mp3s. I'd never buy one because I like my music to be tactile. This is bringing some of that back.
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SugarSpunSister Yeah, whatever, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:31,
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A part of me misses physical objects
ask a lot of folks what they're listening to on their iPod or equivalent and they have to look to see what it's called and have NO idea what it would look like if they had to identify the album in a line up of CDs, I've got stuff on mine that if I put it on random I swear I've never heard it before in my life, but was probably just downloaded on a whim one evening as it was a one-click freebie, it's all become a bit ethereal and disposable hasn't it?
I miss cleverness in the physical object that I could explore, some folks like Pink Floyd and Radiohead and such used to do all sorts of clever tricks that made the music almost insignificant to the medium itself and the packaging surrounding it, and it gave the band a sort of folklore beyond their image onscreen or facts in mags etc and was just a teensy bit magical.
Bit of a dead art now really...
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..wil, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:42,
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Yep
My ultimates are Lemon Jelly. Everything they've ever released is BEAUTIFUL. Just such a joy to own.
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SugarSpunSister Yeah, whatever, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:44,
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I still have that live album Pulse by Pink Floyd someplace
have to wonder if I dug it out if it would still have one... ?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse_(Pink_Floyd_album)#LED_packaging
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..wil, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:56,
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All I can think of now is a sad glowing record in a dark corner of the loft
It;s made me quite heartbroken
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SugarSpunSister Yeah, whatever, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:01,
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Aw!
In a box in the celler as it happens, still pull 'em out now and then for a breath of fresh air! ;)
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..wil, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:39,
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^this^
I got my first mp3 album a couple of weeks back (it's not available as a physical album), and I was really dissapointed that there were sleeve notes.
Just the tracks and a JPG of the front cover.
It sounds daft, but I felt a bit cheated.
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Joe Scaramanga with a G-double-O-D vibration, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:51,
Reply)
How is it tactile? It's still digital, albeit with a bit of interactivity.
But I know what you mean, if you really like something you want to own it in a 'special' way and you might want to have a physical product. I suppose this lets you put your 'stamp' on it.
That said the digital format for music is here to stay and will completely replace the CD if it hasn't already.
As well doing the same for books and games.
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:51,
Reply)
I sincerely hope you're wrong there
Nothing will ever replace the physical object in my eyes, especially not digital books. Books are ACE. This is also why vinyl still has such a dedicated fanbase
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SugarSpunSister Yeah, whatever, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:54,
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I love books too, but I'm afraid it's inevitable.
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:55,
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Nah
If that was the case there'd be no more collectors. And you'll NEVER stop collectors, especially not with this generation. Everyone between the ages of 15 and 40 grew up with collectables as toys. It's a concept that's deeply ingrained in them, and it'll never go. The only reason it's in a glut right now is because folks don't have as much disposable income. Sort the economy out and people will start buying things again.
/Did her dissertation on this
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SugarSpunSister Yeah, whatever, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 12:59,
Reply)
What I'm saying is, something like the Kindle and the sale of digital books will grow exponentially.
I'll be very surprised if fifty years from now books will be printed on paper and sold in a shop.
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:03,
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Digital media is far too unreliable IMO
It's unfeasible to think all reference books will be in digital form. What about academia? Libraries? Hard copies of company reports, data and other reference?
The digital age is great but it's just unfeasible for everything to go digital
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SugarSpunSister Yeah, whatever, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:07,
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Imagine if you could scan the pages of a book without opening it.
Technology will speed the process up, everything is going in the cloud, I feel it in my loins.
I'm not happy about it, as we've recently seen how bad data security is.
Well, there go.
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:16,
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Take your tinfoil hat off and see my logic
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SugarSpunSister Yeah, whatever, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:24,
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All books will go digital given enough time.
*chews tinfoil*
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:29,
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a book can always be read
nasa recently had to THROW away data because there where no system to read it...can you see the fallible-ness of the digital format now?
(, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:29, Reply)
Nasa now, I've mentioned data security up there^
You seem somewhat confused, I'm not saying that the digital format is perfect, I'm saying it's inevitable.
Shirley that's obvious?
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:37,
Reply)
Do we still writet with our hands
because we have had typewriters for a while.
do we still walk with our feet, because we have had mechanised transport for a while.
do we still print out documents rather than read them on perfectly good screens?
now tell me again how digital media will replace everything...
yes digital media will become more common... but humans are a funny bunch...just cos something makes a lot of sense on paper (sic/lol) doesn't mean EVERYONE will adopt it.
but for the masses...probably.
(, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:42, Reply)
You seem to have misread what I typed, I didn't mention vinyl or its availability.
All I am saying is that the digital format for music, books and games will outsell the physical versions given enough time and eventually replace them.
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(|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:07,
Reply)
but there aren't any formats which have been totally replaced
people who like buying cd's like those who want to buy vinyl will still be able too, they will just have to go out their way a bit more...
the only real dead formats are rival formats, like betamax minidisc or laserdisc, formats which arrived at the same time as other formats...
i still believe that todays vinyl junkies, will be joined by tape junkies, and cd junkies, and eventually mp3 junkies....
i think we are probably arguing about a pedantic interpretation of a word...which is usually my form.
(, Tue 7 Jun 2011, 13:10, Reply)