I've already addressed this many times over the last couple of days
b3ta.com/board/10504288
b3ta.com/links/664708
etc
These people have CHOSEN to be what they are, I know this because I live with them everyday, they are an abuse of our social system put there to support the working class when times are hard, selling themselves as intouchable victims of happenstance for free hand outs, the very idea that they might read a book, learn a trade, get a job or in any way better themselves or even appreciate what they already get for free they consider ridiculous, they have chosen to spend everyday partying and being arseholed, annoying wankers outside of society paid for by the rest of us without conscience or consequence, they don't want to earn anything, they don't even want a nice life, they just want more cool stuff and free beer, and they're getting together to take it and believe no one can stop them, with the excuse that it is their right to do so 'cos they are victims of them rich folks and conservatives or whatever or nothin, innit.
You can give them as much of a leg up and free opportunities to better themselves and contribute to society as you like, they'll just swap it for drugs and an Xbox.
The only solution is to stop the cycle of events that make their lifestyle choice possible, how you go about that I'm no expert at but seems to me some possible consequences and a bit of personal responsibility for their negative actions against the rest of us thrown in the mix might help a bit!
Otherwise known as a bit less support and understanding and a bit more of a kick up the arse!
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..wil, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:38,
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You emphasise that they choose to be shiftless layabouts, scrounging off the system,
I dunno. I'm NOT making excuses for their actions, but it seems to me that there will be innumerable problems contributing to the rise of the 'chav lifestyle', based in many areas in society, ie family problems, education problems, work problems, community problems. Obviously this does not apply to all of the rioters, and if the current systems don't work then yes, time to reform them.
All I think we are saying is that we need to be sure that the reforms make the biggest impact, because as the article points out many social institutions will be wrangling for limited tax money to forward their own agendas.
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Hellzapoppin, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:57,
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I won't dispute your arguments about the individuals involved but I will dispute your proposed solution.
The 'drop state support and give them a kick up the arse' approach has been tested before in a place called America. It didn't work. In fact, somewhat counter-intuitively, things got worse.
See Detroit, Baltimore, Atlanta, LA & countless other impoverished urban environments.
Of course over there likes of Glenn Beck on the right wing argue that this is because the state support wasn't cut enough, but I lack the time to dispute their whole belief system.
Anyway, back to work for me. Stay safe out there B3tans!!!
(, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:58, Share, Reply)
I've only ever seen one thing that gets a chav off his arse and turning up someplace ontime
the words 'Otherwise we'll stop your benefits'.
Suddenly they get very focussed.
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..wil, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:12,
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You should drop in for chats more often you massive lurker.
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Hellzapoppin, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:18,
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But...
...a great deal of them were children - no choice yet as to work or not to work. They just saw an opportunity to get free stuff and "have a laugh".
I know I wouldn't have done so when I was a child, so the discussion should be about what makes them different from me?
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TheAlmightyBeev, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:02,
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Teenage parents
on benefits?
If all your mates are doing it, you do it, you always aspire to be like the big boys, simple as.
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..wil, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:10,
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So the problem is that they don't have someone better to admire and emulate?
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TheAlmightyBeev, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:20,
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A lot of truth in that.
Kids will always look for role models and if the best that is on hand is a feckless lowlife blathering about "Respect" - then that's what becomes their role model.
The sort of mindset they have is fashioned at a very young and impressionable age, probably from 6 or 7 years old. Most kids don't suddenly "go off the rails" when they're 16 or 17, it happens much earlier and very gradually.
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Blackdogmanguitar is out with Fat Larry's Jazz Band on, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:33,
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There is some truth in that I think
when we won the rugby world cup that time for the first time ever I saw some ball games in my street that looked like the kids might actually be aspiring to get good at it, not just kick it at folks' houses & cars, and there's deffo a reason why so many think they can make it as a rap star or R&B singer.
Worked for Amy WInehouse... oh wait.
Yeh might help uf we had more of a sense that anyone can make it if they try, and gave them some kinda carrot, maybe good behaviour gets a day in a recording studio or something?
Mind you, they tried making them a youth centre with stuff like video games here one time, tuck shop, organised events, days out, supervised child care etc, they just stole all the stuff worth stealing, did drugs there 'cos there was nowt else to do once the place was stripped, then when the police got involved burnt the place down for 'grassing us up' so it ain't fucking easy to help them, I can tell you that.
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..wil, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:40,
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^^^^^ this this this
I also see these people every day out for what they can get and
not giving anything back.
For the people looking for deeper reasons than criminality why
this is happening it's human nature. The same has happened for
a thousand years and it'll still happen in the year 3000 ("but we'll live
Underwater").
I think the only reason we have widespread looting without a 'cause'
is improved communications. Only now can people v quickly
organise to meet then coordinate effectively to avoid police. Without
blackberry's the looting would have stopped in tottenham.
(, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 14:55, Share, Reply)