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This is a link post "Nothing 'mindless' about rioters": Aljazeeras take on the riots.
I like the articles point of view. There is more to these riots than simple opportunism, clearly there are other political and social forces at work that need to be understood.
 (I helped save b3ta! Hellzapoppin, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 9:42, , Reply)
This is a normal post Yeah..
But can we try to understand them after we've given them a shoeing and thrown the little shits in jail?

Cheers
 (I helped save b3ta! Legless Mister Stabby - shanks for the memory, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 9:46, , Reply)
This is a normal post Or at the very least
try and understand not everyone who's poor and living on a council estate is like these wankers.

And please do NOT call these scum working class, keep seeing that in Guardian and Telegraph type reports, it's an insult to the rest of us.
 (I helped save b3ta! ..wil, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 9:51, , Reply)
This is a normal post Well it seems to be a particular demographic / subculture that has taken to the street
Call tham chavs if you like, though I'm not sure the label helps. Understanding the rise of the chavs will likely give us insight and a possible solution to prevent stuff like this happening in the future.
 (I helped save b3ta! Hellzapoppin, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 9:59, , Reply)
This is a normal post "the rise of the chavs"
is this the discarded title for the third Terminator movie?
 (I helped save b3ta! Funkenschlag still likes dogs more than cats, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 13:04, , Reply)
This is a normal post i've always used
'the sub-class': below the class system. not particularly pleasant but i used it in relation to me when younger
 (DreddPirateBob has watched every scifi film ever on, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:15, , Reply)
This is a normal post Lumpenproletariat, underclass,
I hate both of these ideas.
 (I helped save b3ta! Hellzapoppin, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:17, , Reply)
This is a normal post Maybe after the prison rape. Maybe.
Edit} what Wil said.

I lived on an estate. I was working class too. I worked. (there's the clue)
Of course now middle class. Can't drink the amount of merlot I do and
eat the amount of humous I do and not be.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 9:51, , Reply)
This is a normal post Sure, that's the prevailing attitude in most media sources,
and I'm not condoning the riots in any way, I'm upset and angry about it. That's why I want to know why it happened, as a phenomenon, what are the current social and political forces that allowed this situation to develop?

It's abstract, but I think the way that the media portrays the riots may have significantly contributed to them continuing.
 (I helped save b3ta! Hellzapoppin, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 9:55, , Reply)
This is a normal post Here's my simplified take on thinks
Tottenham riot was out of anger at the police over the shooting

Chavs saw how easy it is so long as you stay in packs and decided to
have a bit of it.

If they look like they're enjoying themselves then it's not a protest.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 9:58, , Reply)
This is a normal post
Yep.

And media saturation didn't help in my opinion. They saw how easy it was and how much fun it looked, so decided they didn't want to miss out. Especially as they 'get arrested for no reason' most of the time anyway...
 (BombayMick Dogs are better than cats, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:01, , Reply)
This is a normal post No reason
being they just borrowed the car, it belongs to his brother's mate's girlfriend's dad and the drugs was in it already occifer...
 (I helped save b3ta! ..wil, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:13, , Reply)
This is a normal post
That's the one.

Nail has been well and truly hit on the head - which some of these rioters will be, hopefully :-)
 (BombayMick Dogs are better than cats, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:16, , Reply)
This is a normal post well yes, it was 'mindless criminality' but mindless criminality is a consequence of the failure of our politics
the situation which gave rise to this mindless criminality and a generation of youths who apparently seem to have little to no stake in their broader society is totally political.

It wasn't a protest against disenfranchisement, lack of opportunities, piss-poor education, lack of political representation and cultural alienation but it is BECAUSE of those things that there are gangs of lunatics running about smashing up shops and thieving everything in sight.

Its clear that you'd all like to think that you're in some way 'better' than this (and by implication 'better' than 'those other people') but if you were a teenager raised in their situation the chances are you might be out there in the shit with the rest of them.

Go on. Keep alienating people and setting them apart from your comfortable lives. That will DEFINITELY NOT lead to more trouble in future.

/returns_to_the_lurk
 (teh gman will uplaod your c0d3z, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:14, , Reply)
This is a normal post ...
It wasn't a protest against disenfranchisement, lack of opportunities, piss-poor education, lack of political representation and cultural alienation but it is BECAUSE of those things that there are gangs of lunatics running about smashing up shops and thieving everything in sight.

This. Completely this. Are you me?
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:17, , Reply)
This is a normal post I don't think so
but it is possible. I wouldn't rule it out. If we ever met it may be safest for the universe if we didn't shake hands...
 (teh gman will uplaod your c0d3z, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:33, , Reply)
This is a normal post On the plus side
you could give each other handjobs and it wouldn't be gay.
 (I helped save b3ta! Hellzapoppin, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:23, , Reply)
This is a normal post This

(I helped save b3ta! Hellzapoppin, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:18, , Reply)
This is a normal post So basically it's not their fault. It's ours for not carrying them out of that situation?
You can wring your hands in guilt buy i'm not going to.
I grew up on poor estates and along with many others
didn't turn to being a worthless thieving scrote.

So life didn't deal you a perfect hand? You work to improve it.
Like those poor sods that worked to build their own business
only to have their life's work pissed away because some cunt didn't
want to pay for his can of stella.

And yes. I am better than "those" people. Better because I made myself better.

You think you have it bad growing up under Cameron?
I had Thatcher, national strikes, poll tax (proper riots) and mutually assured nuclear fucking destruction.
Mass unemployment, crap food and god damn fucking mullets.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:33, , Reply)
This is a normal post It isn't about 'fault' or 'blame'.
It's about examining and understanding how subcultures like 'chavs' and 'neds' come about in the first place.

He's not trying to relieve them of responsibility, just acknowledging that the situation is more complex than a bunch of idiots deciding to go out looting and pillaging. The article (and teh gman) points to many different root causes.
 (I helped save b3ta! Hellzapoppin, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:42, , Reply)
This is a normal post I didn't say it wasn't their fault for rioting.
Clearly if you are in a riot then you are the one rioting. If you murder someone you are a murderer.

I simply believe that before you condemn someone you should seek to understand the causes. It is very easy to say "they did it because they are bad people" but that still leaves the question of "why are they bad people?".

If society wants to prevent this nonsense from happening in the future then it is necessary to understand and learn from the circumstances that created it.

Simply saying "they are crims BANG EM UP" might do away with the individual perpetrators but it doesn't solve the problems which created the criminal behaviour and we will inevitably see a repeat of the riots again and again until those problems are solved.
 (teh gman will uplaod your c0d3z, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:50, , Reply)
This is a normal post You could apply the same reasoning to pedophiles
In fact more so if sexual orientation turns out to be nature rather than nurture.

If someone that has cravings for sex with children releases that this is not
acceptable to society decides to get help and has not hurt anyone else.
Then more power to them.

However, if they decide to act on their urges knowing fore well that it's wrong.
Then by all means "Bang them up" and enforce the treatment that will stop them
being a danger to society.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:01, , Reply)
This is a normal post Yes...?
However, if the threat of prison isn't enough, then what? Prison deals with the symptom but not the cause in that case, and as teh gman says, it will simply perpetuate for decades...
 (I helped save b3ta! Hellzapoppin, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:15, , Reply)
This is a normal post I don't have the answers to fix the worlds ill's
I can however concentrate on helping myself and those in my immediate circle.

Now if only everyone thought like that and we got all those circles to overlap slightly things would be a little better.

But that's not going to happen anytime soon.

Until then, do your best and if you see something that's wrong make sure you voice that opinion and
maybe the little cunts will take the hint.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 12:25, , Reply)
This is a normal post ^This
all of it. But especially the mullets.

I come from a council estate. A broken home. But I made out OK in the end.

But then again, I came from a school that would cane you for the slightest infraction. A family that would go mental if the police ever had to come to our door and that would mean severe chastisement.

I also respected and feared the police. I didn't like the police but I made damn sure I kept under their radar. And the mere thought of the court system would turn my bones to water.

These kids? They've never had any sort of discipline, any sort of punishment. They laugh at the police and jeer at the judges. Without going full-on, all Daily Mail, what they need is a sharp bloody shock. And it should hurt. A lot.

Cheers
 (I helped save b3ta! Legless Mister Stabby - shanks for the memory, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:51, , Reply)
This is a normal post I've already addressed this many times over the last couple of days
b3ta.com/board/10504288

b3ta.com/links/664708

etc

These people have CHOSEN to be what they are, I know this because I live with them everyday, they are an abuse of our social system put there to support the working class when times are hard, selling themselves as intouchable victims of happenstance for free hand outs, the very idea that they might read a book, learn a trade, get a job or in any way better themselves or even appreciate what they already get for free they consider ridiculous, they have chosen to spend everyday partying and being arseholed, annoying wankers outside of society paid for by the rest of us without conscience or consequence, they don't want to earn anything, they don't even want a nice life, they just want more cool stuff and free beer, and they're getting together to take it and believe no one can stop them, with the excuse that it is their right to do so 'cos they are victims of them rich folks and conservatives or whatever or nothin, innit.

You can give them as much of a leg up and free opportunities to better themselves and contribute to society as you like, they'll just swap it for drugs and an Xbox.

The only solution is to stop the cycle of events that make their lifestyle choice possible, how you go about that I'm no expert at but seems to me some possible consequences and a bit of personal responsibility for their negative actions against the rest of us thrown in the mix might help a bit!

Otherwise known as a bit less support and understanding and a bit more of a kick up the arse!
 (I helped save b3ta! ..wil, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:38, , Reply)
This is a normal post You emphasise that they choose to be shiftless layabouts, scrounging off the system,
I dunno. I'm NOT making excuses for their actions, but it seems to me that there will be innumerable problems contributing to the rise of the 'chav lifestyle', based in many areas in society, ie family problems, education problems, work problems, community problems. Obviously this does not apply to all of the rioters, and if the current systems don't work then yes, time to reform them.

All I think we are saying is that we need to be sure that the reforms make the biggest impact, because as the article points out many social institutions will be wrangling for limited tax money to forward their own agendas.
 (I helped save b3ta! Hellzapoppin, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:57, , Reply)
This is a normal post I won't dispute your arguments about the individuals involved but I will dispute your proposed solution.
The 'drop state support and give them a kick up the arse' approach has been tested before in a place called America. It didn't work. In fact, somewhat counter-intuitively, things got worse.

See Detroit, Baltimore, Atlanta, LA & countless other impoverished urban environments.

Of course over there likes of Glenn Beck on the right wing argue that this is because the state support wasn't cut enough, but I lack the time to dispute their whole belief system.

Anyway, back to work for me. Stay safe out there B3tans!!!
 (teh gman will uplaod your c0d3z, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:58, , Reply)
This is a normal post I've only ever seen one thing that gets a chav off his arse and turning up someplace ontime
the words 'Otherwise we'll stop your benefits'.

Suddenly they get very focussed.
 (I helped save b3ta! ..wil, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:12, , Reply)
This is a normal post You should drop in for chats more often you massive lurker.

(I helped save b3ta! Hellzapoppin, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:18, , Reply)
This is a normal post But...
...a great deal of them were children - no choice yet as to work or not to work. They just saw an opportunity to get free stuff and "have a laugh".

I know I wouldn't have done so when I was a child, so the discussion should be about what makes them different from me?
 (I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:02, , Reply)
This is a normal post Teenage parents
on benefits?

If all your mates are doing it, you do it, you always aspire to be like the big boys, simple as.
 (I helped save b3ta! ..wil, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:10, , Reply)
This is a normal post So the problem is that they don't have someone better to admire and emulate?

(I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:20, , Reply)
This is a normal post A lot of truth in that.
Kids will always look for role models and if the best that is on hand is a feckless lowlife blathering about "Respect" - then that's what becomes their role model.

The sort of mindset they have is fashioned at a very young and impressionable age, probably from 6 or 7 years old. Most kids don't suddenly "go off the rails" when they're 16 or 17, it happens much earlier and very gradually.
 (I helped save b3ta! Blackdogmanguitar is out with Fat Larry's Jazz Band on, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:33, , Reply)
This is a normal post There is some truth in that I think
when we won the rugby world cup that time for the first time ever I saw some ball games in my street that looked like the kids might actually be aspiring to get good at it, not just kick it at folks' houses & cars, and there's deffo a reason why so many think they can make it as a rap star or R&B singer.

Worked for Amy WInehouse... oh wait.

Yeh might help uf we had more of a sense that anyone can make it if they try, and gave them some kinda carrot, maybe good behaviour gets a day in a recording studio or something?

Mind you, they tried making them a youth centre with stuff like video games here one time, tuck shop, organised events, days out, supervised child care etc, they just stole all the stuff worth stealing, did drugs there 'cos there was nowt else to do once the place was stripped, then when the police got involved burnt the place down for 'grassing us up' so it ain't fucking easy to help them, I can tell you that.
 (I helped save b3ta! ..wil, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:40, , Reply)
This is a normal post ^^^^^ this this this
I also see these people every day out for what they can get and
not giving anything back.

For the people looking for deeper reasons than criminality why
this is happening it's human nature. The same has happened for
a thousand years and it'll still happen in the year 3000 ("but we'll live
Underwater").

I think the only reason we have widespread looting without a 'cause'
is improved communications. Only now can people v quickly
organise to meet then coordinate effectively to avoid police. Without
blackberry's the looting would have stopped in tottenham.
 (dyllon nice beaver., Wed 10 Aug 2011, 14:55, , Reply)
This is a normal post How about
'They don't give a fuck about us, why should we give a fuck about them?'

That's what I see the riots as, a big 'fuck you'. Who doesn't enjoy saying 'fuck you'?
 (I helped save b3ta! Hellzapoppin, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:16, , Reply)
This is a normal post yup
and our take on society's attitude is framed in that very media...plus things like B3ta. Once you hear 'scum' or 'chav' you tend to turn off but there are people, sensible commentators, who look at the causes of this.
Of course, the majority pretend that it's as though some mind-altering disease has rapidly spread throughout engerland and the doctor's order is to give carriers a good-kicking.
 (poocheim No al calcio moderno, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:14, , Reply)
This is a normal post No
Just no. There was a small, genuinely aggrieved group of people in Tottenham. They have nothing to do with the wider rioting. I live in Hackney. What happened here has NOTHING to do with politics and NOTHING to do with protest. The car burned outside my office was burned by a group of fucking kids. The Carhartt shop opposite the office was looted by a bunch of fucking kids. They were drunk, they were stealing shit and having a really great laugh. it is NOT FUCKING POLITICAL.

Seeing this kind of complete nonsense from people who were't there and have no idea but are paid to produce some kind of analysis has made me realise that maybe everything i think i know about everywhere else is as wrong as this load of bullshit.

Maybe everything I think about syria and afghanistan and iran and everywhere else is total fucking rubbish.

So yeah, the main thing i have learned is that analysis in the media is fucking bollocks
 (I helped save b3ta! crab_bloke), Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:44, , Reply)
This is a normal post So can you completely discount any political, social or economical problems
as being the root cause of the violence on our streets?
 (asciifaceofbob bob bob bob bob bob bob bob, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:54, , Reply)
This is a normal post in hackney yes
and my assumption would certainly be that for everywhere except tottenham also yes. but really i can only speak for hackney.
 (I helped save b3ta! crab_bloke), Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:57, , Reply)
This is a normal post Then
That would be you hackneyed opinion I suppose.....


cheers
 (I helped save b3ta! Legless Mister Stabby - shanks for the memory, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:59, , Reply)
This is a normal post yeah opinion is different from observed fact
good joke mind! but yeah you see what i'm saying? this isn't just my opinion, it's a fact. hackney riot was not political. 100% of fact.
 (I helped save b3ta! crab_bloke), Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:05, , Reply)
This is a normal post I Agree With You
This wasn't political - it wasn't a "days of rage" scenario. It was a crime-spree, pure and simple.

Mind - it was social. For most of them, it was the best night out they'd ever had...

Cheers
 (I helped save b3ta! Legless Mister Stabby - shanks for the memory, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:11, , Reply)
This is a normal post Then it's not a 'just no'.
Quote from above: this isn't a protest against disenfranchisement, lack of opportunities, piss-poor education, lack of political representation and cultural alienation but it is BECAUSE of those things that there are gangs of lunatics running about smashing up shops and thieving everything in sight.
 (I helped save b3ta! Hellzapoppin, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:07, , Reply)
This is a normal post ok yeah
i'll admit to reacting badly to the impression that it's trying to find a worthy excuse for the rioting, rather than addressing the point properly.
 (I helped save b3ta! crab_bloke), Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:14, , Reply)
This is a normal post actually i didn't really answer your question did I
sorry- yes of course there is something wrong which has allowed this to happen, but it isn;t about cuts or police brutality or anything like that- it is a failure to bring children up properly, a collapse of authority.

their parents should have brought them up better

their parents should have kept them under control on the day

the police should have been far more aggressive and frightened them off the streets

the police should have broken the gangs that orchestrated the violence years ago

the authorities should have made sure these kids were forced to go to school, and teachers should be given far more support

it goes on and on doesn't it. there has been a collapse of authority and this is the result.

i have been reborn as a rabid authoritarian in the wake of the riots. i'm all for rubber bullets and water cannon now. motherfuckers try and break in to my house with my wife and kids in, i'm going to stab them to death with a bread knife.
 (I helped save b3ta! crab_bloke), Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:13, , Reply)
This is a normal post :) well said

(I helped save b3ta! mr.dogshit The world's premier anthropomorphic canine faeces, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:18, , Reply)
This is a normal post Bring Back Flogging!
Well, a bit of an over-reaction but it is time that some of these "rights" were taken away from children. Canes should be brought back in in schools. Parents should have the right to physically discipline their children - within reason - without having the fucking Social Workers come charging in.

I'm still a left-winger. I'm still old-school labour at heart but, for fucks sake. This society is broken and it's because of too many "rights" for children who can't handle them.... Give them rights when they're old enough to also have responsibility....

cheers
 (I helped save b3ta! Legless Mister Stabby - shanks for the memory, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:22, , Reply)
This is a normal post the problem is that kids have "rights" that we dont.
if as an adult you act like a complete cunt, theres a good chance someone will punch you in the face.

stops a lot of people being cunts.
 (DefyingDarwin Old, untalented and white,, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:33, , Reply)
This is a normal post yeah my liberal credentials
are burning in the bin right now. in fact the ridiculous amount of news this year has left me with a strange mixture of radical left and authoritarian opinions.

when the bankers are screwing us so we all hate the rich, and the underclass are smashing up my neighbourhood and threatening the safety of my family so i hate them too, and the politicians are on the make, and the police have been taking bribes from the media, who have themselves been acting like a bunch of total cunts, and the tax system benefits the greedy rich instead of people trying to make a living, and the benefits system works to the advantage of the lazy shits instead of the people in need, and there's not enough money for anything, and the troops are dying for a war no-one thinks can be won, and there's a vague threat of terrorism all the time, and there's a resurgence of racist bigotry, and the kids aren't being disciplined because teachers and the police are too worried about being punished to enforce their authority......

what the fuck is left?

i don;t know what i believe in any more to be honest. i don;t feel like any of the political parties really addresses my feelings of rage at just about everyone.

maybe i'll start a new political party with a massively slimmed down agenda:

bankers- fuck them. tax them to fuck, we don;t need them, the city's profitability is just a mirage. tax them till the financial markets fuck off to china

teachers- do what they want. no need to worry about being investigated for anything at all

riot police- rubber bullets and water cannon all round! public disorder will no longer be tolerated

politics- over. my authority will be absolute

press regulation - basically all press will be fed stories by my govt so no need to worry about that any more

tax- with the exception of bankers who will be taxed to extinction, everyone will pay 40% regardless. it's going to be much cheaper to run like that. no need for expensive civil servants.

benefits- if you're not generating tax revenues you belong to us. the unemployed will be working on civil construction projects in exchange for food rations, or sent to war.

and that's it! no need for any other policies, i'll decide everything else on the fly.

who's in?
 (I helped save b3ta! crab_bloke), Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:44, , Reply)
This is a normal post we dont need a manifesto
we need...a SONG!
 (DefyingDarwin Old, untalented and white,, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:56, , Reply)
This is a normal post YEAH!
That's right!

Working, working, striving towards freedom,
Striving toward justice and a perfect land for all,
Fighting, fighting, whoever we are told to,
Fot the glory of our Leader in our thousands we shall fall

To die for our Leader is the greatest glory,
We shall fight our enemies wherever they may be,
Fighting without mercy to extend our country's borders,
We shall kill to enforce our Leader's authority

All who question the glory of our Leader,
Will be put to death with axes on prime time TV,
We all strive to be perfect like our Leader,
He is the most perfect man that a perfect man can be.
 (I helped save b3ta! crab_bloke), Wed 10 Aug 2011, 12:04, , Reply)
This is a normal post
Gets my vote.

Can you introduce a rule that no one is entitled to benefits until they've paid in 2 years NI contributions?

Also, I'd like you to do something about 'Cheddar' being made outside of the Cheddar gorge area. It should be a protecting name much the same as Champagne.
 (I helped save b3ta! Draconacticus Reject shampoo. Demand real poo!, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 12:01, , Reply)
This is a normal post brill, i'll get you a membership card made up
don't worry about the benefits thing, that system won't be in operation, they'll be put to work or war if they're not contributing tax revenue.

cheddar- YES- ABSOLUTELY.
 (I helped save b3ta! crab_bloke), Wed 10 Aug 2011, 12:05, , Reply)
This is a normal post can i form the militarised wing of your party
it will be painful cruel and unusual.
 (DefyingDarwin Old, untalented and white,, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 12:22, , Reply)
This is a normal post yeah for sure!
we're going to need snazzy uniforms! Hugo Boss did the SS uniforms didn't he. Let's see if we can get... umm..... paul smith? ted baker?
 (I helped save b3ta! crab_bloke), Wed 10 Aug 2011, 12:40, , Reply)
This is a normal post this is shoreditch...
we'll be prepared for clashes of all natures.
 (DefyingDarwin Old, untalented and white,, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 12:47, , Reply)
This is a normal post Little there I could disagree with
I remember being told I'd move to the right as I got older and until recently never thought it'd happen. It sure has now
 (I helped save b3ta! TownsendsPublisher is all gravy baby, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 12:12, , Reply)
This is a normal post Well said - and thanks for the response..
I've been really surprised by the reaction of a number of people I know over the past few days..

Normal, level headed liberal types calling for military on the streets, using real bullets etc - frankly rather frightening.
 (asciifaceofbob bob bob bob bob bob bob bob, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:30, , Reply)
This is a normal post the greatest threat to liberalism is reality.
I grew up not having a great relationship with the police...

now im the most pro-authoritarian person in the office... rubber bullets?

Livefire and a curfew till this is sorted out please.
 (DefyingDarwin Old, untalented and white,, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:31, , Reply)
This is a normal post Welcome to the order of Liberal Rabid Authoritarians
Our numbers have swelled in past days.
We should get badges made.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:35, , Reply)
This is a normal post yeah i think we could win the next election

(I helped save b3ta! crab_bloke), Wed 10 Aug 2011, 12:08, , Reply)
This is a normal post Knowning a lot of London
I find it interesting that certain other poor areas were NOT looted...

Bow
Mile end
Finsbury Park
Clapton
Plaistow
Forest gate
I think Holloway escaped...

My own area, Walthamstow and Leyton, got off VERY lightly on Sunday

These places all have one thing in common other than being full of poor, disenfranchised people.
The shopping facilities are crap.
 (I helped save b3ta! Joe Scaramanga with a G-double-O-D vibration, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:47, , Reply)
This is a normal post Yep same thing down my way
Plenty of poor kids living on estates, but not high street with any shops worth nicking from.

Funny that.
 (I helped save b3ta! pixel_fucker is going to need a bigger brush, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 12:02, , Reply)
This is a normal post Oh very much this
I live in SE London and the areas I would have expected to go up - New Cross, Deptford, Charlton, North Greenwich to name but a few - all seemed to have very quiet nights. Again, all fit the profile above.
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 12:05, , Reply)
This is a normal post yep that's pretty much on the money

(I helped save b3ta! crab_bloke), Wed 10 Aug 2011, 12:06, , Reply)
This is a normal post well
whitechapel was quiet to, guess no one wanted a curry in a hurry!
 (Elmyra He's a home-brew duck... Quack! Quack!, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 22:11, , Reply)
This is a normal post Some journo for the guardian
Was part of the 1981 riots in Toxteth and pointed out something that the media has entirely failed to mention. These people are doing it because it's fun to them. It's that simple. It's fun and they feel like they can get away with it.
 (brandthedoggy, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 14:30, , Reply)