Dunno, to be honest I'm a bit puzzled by it all,
all the anti-religious polemic that's all over the internet and in the media, real frothing at the mouth stuff. The Catholic church haven't burnt a heretic at the stake for centuries, now secular institutions perpetuate oppression, erode civil liberties, fight wars for oil and completely screw the economy over, and at whom do the Western world's self-defined skeptics vent their frustrations? Some folks who like to dress up in fancy robes and dole out crisps once a week.
It's a smokescreen.
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 13 Jul 2012, 18:55,
Reply)
I think
you hit the nail on the head there.
It's people and persons that fuck the world up, not religions.
(, Fri 13 Jul 2012, 19:00, Reply)
but we have to have something to blame,
something to label as "evil" or "the enemy", and it's not going to be liberal democracy, or free market capitalism, or whatever else we hold dear. Pick an easy target and lay into it.
Some people are already proposing (however ironically) the solution to "the religious problem". All sounds too familiar...
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 13 Jul 2012, 19:06,
Reply)
"It's people and persons that fuck the world up"
Wow, I think you've just solved EVERY single argument EVER.
Or just said something a bit dumb.
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Tab Hunter Make this useless process end and so, begin again, Fri 13 Jul 2012, 19:20,
Reply)
sometimes earthquakes help
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 13 Jul 2012, 19:25,
Reply)
Dumb. Nice. Not been called that in a while.
Are you one of those annoying people who tries to make themselves look the smartest on the internet?
You are aren't you.
(, Fri 13 Jul 2012, 19:29, Reply)
See my addendum, posted at the same time as your response.
I did say what you said was dumb, not you.
...and then apologised.
But yes, I am one of those people who get their rocks off looking clever on puerile digital arts communities. I am currently eating a croissant. And wanking.
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Tab Hunter Make this useless process end and so, begin again, Fri 13 Jul 2012, 19:34,
Reply)
Sorry. I did not see your amendment in time.
All good. No hard feelings.
(, Fri 13 Jul 2012, 19:36, Reply)
Sorry Jon, that was unfair; from all your previous posts you seem like a pleasant & intelligent chap.
I guess I just get irked by religious apologists in the same way you get annoyed with militant athiests. I guess I'm always going to go for the latter, if it's ever necessary to choose.
Mind, he is an overly-aggressive self-serving smug. Sometimes he hits the nail on the head, however.
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Tab Hunter Make this useless process end and so, begin again, Fri 13 Jul 2012, 19:30,
Reply)
I think the answer is more grey than that.
There are plenty of aspects of religion that should make people angry - teaching kids unscientific stuff in science lessons, anti-gay propoganda etc.
However, treating all religious people as if they are the same and discounting all positive aspects of religion is irrational and dumb.
You are right when you say there are bigger problems, but to re-word your argument "secular institutions perpetuate oppression, erode civil liberties, fight wars for oil and completely screw the economy over, and at whom do the Western world's church leaders vent their frustrations? Gays"
The church does itself no favours by who they have for spokesmen.
Though, to be fair, in many cases (such as this video) neither do atheists.
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monkeon schmonkeon, Fri 13 Jul 2012, 19:53,
Reply)
yeah fair point,
although really, and I've been meaning to say this since our last conversation, church leaders in this country at least tend to be on the whole a good deal more liberal than their congregations, but they're scared of alienating their conservative membership base. It's the laity we really need to worry about, homophobia isn't imposed top-down by the Archbishop of Canterbury on an otherwise tolerant population. Sad but true, so it appears to me. Not sure what to do about it.
Main article: Moral theology of Rowan Williams
Williams' contributions to Anglican views of homosexuality were perceived as quite liberal before he became the Archbishop of Canterbury. These views are evident in a paper written by Williams called 'The Body’s Grace',[33] which he originally delivered as the 10th Michael Harding Memorial Address in 1989 to the Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement, and which is now part of a series of essays collected in the book Theology and Sexuality (ed. Eugene Rogers, Blackwells 2002).
The conservative churches in the United States, however, are currently going mental over this. They can't even criticise capitalism as an outlet, unlike our lot, so they've got to invent a "gay agenda" instead...
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 13 Jul 2012, 20:03,
Reply)
Perhaps they should just stop pandering
to Conservatives and actually preach the mostly-liberal message Jesus had.
If the Christian church has any purpose, surely it is to preach Jesus' words rather than to try and get the numbers up by saying what the audience want to hear.
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monkeon schmonkeon, Fri 13 Jul 2012, 20:20,
Reply)
Maybe they should,
but it's politics, isn't it. It's not that easy to do and keep your job, I guess, ultimately it's the laity who pay their wages. It must be like trying to steer a container ship.
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 13 Jul 2012, 20:26,
Reply)