international statistics here
www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvinco.html
I think the Michael Moore film Bowling for Columbine cites these numbers, and the weak correlation internationally with gun crime statistics to gun ownership percentages.
His thesis ends up being that its not gun ownership that is the problem, but a culture of fear, in particular racial fear.
(, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 11:31, Reply)
also here
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
what's interesting is that while Northern Ireland has a higher gun homicide rate, the US has a far higher suicide/accident rate.
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 11:34,
Reply)
That is one of the sloppiest use of statistics i've ever seen.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 11:45,
Reply)
It's a sloppy page of statistics crowbared together.
It's comparing figures from random 1 year samples over the course of 2 decades from surveys with different types of data sets.
There's a column for self defence yet not filled in.
Either nobody shot in self defence in the various years it was made or the author thought up the lists before reading data.
The U.S data is from 2004-2006 yet it says 1 year.
There's more holes to poke in it but I can't be bothered.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:08,
Reply)
I'm not about to write an academic paper on it,
it's surely good enough a rough guide for a casual internet debate.
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:17,
Reply)
Quite right.
It wouldn't be an Internet debate if the opinions were informed and useful ! ;-)
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JamTallons, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:23,
Reply)
Not really. Why use a flawed set of figures as a basis for a discussion?
Especially where there's many other source options that are current.
www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_hom_wit_fir-crime-gun-violence-homicides-firearms
Fill yer boots.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:28,
Reply)
great.
It cites Wikipedia as its source.
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:33,
Reply)
Did you look at the source page?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence
Lunch now, you can have the last word on this i've got salad to eat.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:40,
Reply)
Have you noticed that always having the last word
seems far more important to her than consistency or actual informed, intelligent argument?
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Tab Hunter Make this useless process end and so, begin again, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:58,
Reply)
I'm more surprised at your lack of comment about me eating salad.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 13:04,
Reply)
Why my good man I have the reputation for being a fat ginger Cornishman.
Despite being just over fourteen and a half stone and just a little bit of ginger in my beard.
I am however Cornish.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 14:07,
Reply)
on this one i'm not seeing the gun ownership %age
I'm trying to have a look at getting a good graph together, but on my limited version of excel I'm not about to label the scatter points properly.
Unfortunately the GunCite table also mixes years for the different countries statistics, so its not the best source. However, the general thrust is still interesting: while the USA has both the highest gun ownership and gun homicide rates, the next 6 down the list by ownership (in descending order: Norway, Canada, Switzerland, Finland, France and New Zealand) all have over 20% gun ownership and less that 1 gun homicide per 100,000 population, with no particular relationship between the two datasets.
Its worth noting that this is not an exhaustive list, many violent countries do not have statistics available on gun ownership, but perhaps that's to the good as it means we are comparing countries with governments stable enough to collect such data.
(, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:03, Reply)
no I mentioned that list
because it has total gun deaths broken down into homicides, suicides and accidents.
I was surprised to see N.I. higher than the U.S. because I was sure it was the opposite, but it's because the total gun deaths is higher in the U.S.
Also curious is the suicide rate in Switzerland... I wonder if gun ownership correlates to suicide by shooting. Not that I'm saying gun ownership causes suicides, but I guess if you've got one it seems like an obvious way to do it.
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:09,
Reply)
well that is the interesting point isn't it? its not that you need a gun to kill someone or yourself
the South Africa statistic is intersting, in that it has a very high total homicide rate, 2/3rds of which are non-firearm.
Were I of the homicidal inclination, I'd have a wealth of creative options: bare hands, a kicking on the floor, kitchen knife, rock/brick/pool ball in a sock, garden tools, heavy household ornaments, the whole content of my tool box (except perhaps the tape measure), rat poison, and several plants growing in my garden including deadly nightshade, hemlock and in a few weeks the classic fly agaric mushroom.
Personally I'm of the opinion that prohibition is a sticking plaster measure at the best of times, we have to look to the cause of murder, not the tool used. Why are people angry enough to kill?
(, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:21, Reply)
absolutely,
often it's just a PR exercise so that the politicians can be seen to be doing something. After Dunblane, for instance, who got penalised? Legitimate gun sports clubs. They didn't do anything whatsoever to address the actual cause of the incident.
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:26,
Reply)