part of the problem
was the sudden push over the last few years that everyone has to get on the housing ladder, right now, right this minute.

well, it sounds awful to say it, but the harsh truth is that not everyone can afford to get on the housing ladder at right this minute. if you need to borrow 125%, unless you are in a career with a guaranteed salary hike (eg trainee - fully qualified solicitor), you cannot afford the house.

our private client team had loads of queries about the new stamp duty holiday. now yes, everybody wants to save a couple of grand, who the hell wouldn't. but for some people, it was literally the difference between buying or not buying. if £2k makes that difference to you, you cannot afford it and you will end up in trouble if forces beyond your control, like your job or the housing market, conspire against you. the kind of trouble where you lose your house, and the sale only covers a fraction of your debt, and you get sued for the balance plus interest up to TWELVE YEARS down the line.

which is what i warned my friends, who spunked out £285k on a 125% mortgage to live in a shithole in streatham, that is now worth about £205k, if they could sell it at all, that is. they'd been living rent free in his parents' flat before that; if they'd just gritted their teeth and saved up for a year, instead of having to buy somewhere right then and there, they'd have had a decent deposit, could have bought somewhere nicer on a normal sized mortgage, and wouldn't be in quite such a mess.

bloody irresponsible lending!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 23 Jan 2009, 14:46, 18 replies)

I sometimes think...
that I am the only person left alive who thinks "renting isn't so bad - some other bugger has to pay to fix the roof". And I earn *good* money, so it's not like I couldn't do the mortgage thing if I chose to - it's just I don't see the point at the moment.

My wife and I livein a 14 room coaching inn in a pretty market town. We've got rent at a fixed rate for five years and we're contemplating putting in an offer to buy after that.

For the same amount per month, my best friend bought a two-bed-and-a-box-room end of terrace just outside Croydon. It had a patio above the damp couse, meaning I and my friends ended up sacrificing our annual leave to help rebuild the house from the inside out - new interior walls, kitchehn, plastering, floors, joists and ceiling (and floors upstairs). My friend then ran out of money so can't afford to drop the patio below the damp course, so the house will end up with dry rot and damp again.

They had paid £220k for it, but extended the mortgage twice, along with racking up other debt. They initially had a £90k deposit (his wife's parents had bought her a flat when she was 18 but wanted half the value back when they sold). The flat they left was a) as big and, b) in better condition than the house they now own. The Garden is like a cliff-face and needs about £10k of landscaping doing. The porch is unfinished with a wobbly breeze-block for a step - nice and dangerous.

They now have two kids and his wife is talking about needing a bigger house (primarily because she's a yummy mummy and wants to one-up her rivals by moving to a posher area). I wouldn't be in his shoes if you paid me...

I'll buy the place we're in eventually (once the landlord has fixed everything under the terms of the tenancy agreement), buy somewhere else that we prefer (a 5 bed detached Victorian place would be nice, as our place is a bit rambling), or build somewhere (Oak Framed manor-house style - I drew the plans up as a hobby some years ago), but whatever I do, I'll end up better off than my friend who is scared of redundancy, up to his eyeballs and living somewhere that is becoming a millstone, just because "we want to own our own house".

Is it me, or does that seem really dumb?
(Chad, Fri 23 Jan 2009, 14:58, closed)

nope
you're bang on, imho!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 23 Jan 2009, 15:13, closed)

^^It's the lenders again!
I too could, if I put my mind to it, possibly buy a place..If I fancied working flat-out until I'm 68, assuming that I could make enough money. However, I'm happily renting a new-build 3 bed place with my local Housing Association for not-very-much a month.You're right, it isn't you, it is dumb..
I do have some sympathy, a lender's survey should have picked up the patio conundrum though, surely?
(Beer Elf Thought this was like a campfire, anyhow, on, Fri 23 Jan 2009, 15:15, closed)

yes...
they did say "there might be some damp later on in the building's life", but because there is no insistence to have a full engineers' report, no-one knew the extent of the rot until they went to replace the kitcehn units and the floor joists gave way...
(Chad, Fri 23 Jan 2009, 15:20, closed)

There is one thing
If you own a house then it'll still be worth *something* when you retire. That's more than can be said for your pension, if you have one.

Retire at 65 and you might easily have 30 years to support yourself. It's something to think about...
( Olembe Refuses to write in this space, Fri 23 Jan 2009, 15:22, closed)

That's true...
but I pay into a private pension and, to be honest, I'll own a decent house long before I retire, but I am just not in that "hurry-must-buy-a-house-in-order-to-feel-fulfilled"mindset that seems to be all-pervading at the moment.
(Chad, Fri 23 Jan 2009, 15:39, closed)

It will take a long time
for a patio above the damp course to destroy the inside of his house if he's just replaced everything. It's not ideal, but it's not a massive issue in the next six months.

If it's dry rot, that's a totally different matter and nothing to do with the patio.

And your mate should have got a proper independent building survey before he bought it.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 23 Jan 2009, 15:25, closed)

easy with hindsight..
but his wife was nagging to get things done and he knows sod-all about DIY/building...

I think the real problem is that now, thanks to the introduction of HIPs, they'll have to declare the problem to a prospective buyer, thus knackering any chance of a decent sale.
(Chad, Fri 23 Jan 2009, 15:37, closed)

It's not easy with hindsight at all
It's basic common sense, you're buying the biggest most expensive thing you're ever likely to buy, why wouldn't you get an expert to check that it's in the state you think it's in.

The lenders "survey" is literally just someone going to see if the property physically exists, and also, why would you trust the word of the person who is effectively selling you the house that it's okay?

edit - also, if they fix the problem, there will be no issue in selling it either. What you're suggesting is it's unfair that they aren't allow to hoodwink some sucker into buying a shit house.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 23 Jan 2009, 15:47, closed)

not quite..
they had a survey, but not knowing the first thing about what to look out for, they didn't realise that the surveyor was a pimply tit who missed the fact the house had airbricks at the front, he wakled uphill to get to the back and there were no airbricks visible above the patio.

Yes, they could sue the surveyor, but they haven't got the cash to hire a lawyer.

I'm not suggesting that they con a buyer, I am saying that a) they were conned by the previous seller, b) they have paid thousands and we did weeks of work to put the place right and, c) that despite the knowledge that it'd be alright for ages now if nothing else was done and fine forever if the patio was dug up and dropped three inches, a HIP would list every ailment and thus knock £20k off of any offer they are given at least.

They've been kicked in the nuts both coming and going, but of course, it wouldn't have happened if they rented...
(Chad, Fri 23 Jan 2009, 15:58, closed)

It sounds like it would
have happened eventually if they are that completely clueless.

If they fix the patio the HIP won't list any problems, a HIP is basically just a survey you get done for your own house. In the short term they should just dig a trench around the back wall of the house. Once they uncover the DPM it will dry up pretty quickly.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 23 Jan 2009, 16:11, closed)

Oh, I totally agree...
Frankly, I'd love to be a car salesman when they wander onto the forecourt - I'd make a killing!
(Chad, Fri 23 Jan 2009, 16:15, closed)

Probably don't need to drop the whole patio
Just get a gap between it and the wall so the patio isn't up against it. A small trench maybe...

I'm not an engineer so don't sue me if it all goes wrong but I would think that would at least alleviate the issue until it can be fixed properly.
(Richy_T hundreds if not thousands of dollars, Fri 23 Jan 2009, 16:15, closed)

yeah, I think you're right..
In fact, a decent drainage channel running round the house would be a good thing, but to be honest, it's their problem and they'll probably end up remortgaging and having the house jacked up on stilts, knowing them!
(Chad, Fri 23 Jan 2009, 16:26, closed)

Hear hear Ms Swipe
Well said.
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Fri 23 Jan 2009, 16:38, closed)

It was unacceptable in the 80s
...and it's happening all over again. I was an estate agent in 87, and I watched farmworkers on £80 a week take out mortgages on 1 bed shitholes, when they were living in 3 bed tied cottages for nothing.

When we took out our first mortgage in 92, we didn't borrow on 2 incomes, we borrowed on one. We assumed interest rates could rise to 13%. We bought ex-council, cos they're bigger. We bought pre 1960, cos they used decent materials.

I've seen 3 friends hand their keys back or go bankrupt last year. Job in retail, sudden illness, unexpected pregnancy. All of them on 100% mortgages based on 2 incomes, both doing overtime.

Poor fuckers.
(all my scars face forward possesses 2.5% of a hyperalloy combat chassis, Fri 23 Jan 2009, 17:10, closed)

So very true
My house was bought for £70k in 2000. Upon divorce, it was sold for £124k eighteen months later. Aside from a general tidying up, nothing had changed. Not the walls, doors, roof or garden.

What changed?

Lending. The banks loaned more to people who couldn't afford to pay it back. Everyone became wealthy on paper....

It happens so often you'd think the government would learn lessons and impose lending restrictions.

But they didn't. Instead we'd "beaten boom and bust".
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Fri 23 Jan 2009, 22:16, closed)

I agree with you
I am living with my parents till I can buy somewhere decent. There is not a wealth of lovely rental properties in Croydon. So am waiting till prices fall to realistic levels then will buy somewhere that I can actually afford.
(Clarabelle is reverting to type on, Wed 28 Jan 2009, 15:39, closed)