You are very wrong
Paying top rate tax (but only just) means I contribute a lot already. I'm not super rich.

Overall tax contribution is a combination of the amount you pay Vs any breaks or allowances. Child benefit is like the UK's rebate from the EU - overall my contribution seems fair.

The problem I have is that I was not consulted, no one mentioned it during the election and I am going to be the equivalent of £3k poorer when this happens.

Apart from that, what a nice day it is again today.
(LetsGetDownToIt, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 9:55, 2 replies)

No, if you pay top rate tax, you earn enough not to need any child benefit.
It shouldn't be a reward for having children, it shouldn't be money that is used to fund a different part of your life. It should be to make sure that children aren't disadvantaged just for being born. Nothing more.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 10:05, closed)

Always going on about kids eh Peter

( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 10:07, closed)

It's a universal credit precisely becuase the intention
is to stop kids going without essentials. I'd far rather have it paid out to all, than it be means tested and risk those who need it most missing out.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 10:18, closed)

Which would be fine if we were running a surplus and could afford just to give everybody exactly the same,
but given that we're not and we can't, a few top rate tax payers having to buy supermarket own brand pesto isn't exactly top of my priorities to give a shit about.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 10:26, closed)

And our top rate
taxes will still be dished out to lazy Stella swigging students.
(username failed moderation, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 10:28, closed)

Different argument though, innit.
Anyway, I can't take you seriously anymore, you don't get The Simpsons.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 10:30, closed)

Making CB means tested,
increases the risk of those who most need it going without (I believe it's been demonstrated that well educated, middle class types are far more likely to apply for the benefits that they are entitled to).
Do you really think that CB is the cause of our financial deficit, or that cutting it will put our economy back in the black?
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 10:40, closed)

No, I don't believe that, nor do I think I have said that.
And I wasn't really arguing that means testing was neccessarily the way forward, I'd need to be bette informed to have a clear opinion on that. I don't believe I mentioned means testing, to be fair.

My point, my only point, really, was that at the moment it's clearly going to some people who don't need it and it wouldn't be a bad thing to find a solution to that. And not paying it to anyone in the higher tax bracket seems like a pretty good way to go about it from where I stand. As Username_Whatsit said earlier, yes, there may be a handful of people who feel an impact, but realistically, if you are paying the higher tax rate, there will be somewhere else you can save the money back.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 10:47, closed)

So,
you want it to be restricted, based on income, but not means tested, and you don't think it has any bearing on the current deficit, but cite the current deficit as a motivation for restricting it?

2/10 - see me after school
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 10:51, closed)

That must be one of the most dull posts I have ever read.

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 10:54, closed)

You should read the one above it.
Some worthy cunt arguing that people with more money don't need to be given as much as people with less.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 10:58, closed)

The people with more money
might just have worked for it.

I'm struggling with the 'given' bit. I know there's something wrong with that statement, but I'll sound like a raving Thatcherite if I get the wrong answer, which I'm not.
(username failed moderation, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 11:03, closed)

To be fair, this wasn't meant to be a serious contribution to the discussion, just a bad joke about how tedious and worthy I have been coming across in this thread.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 11:15, closed)

Again, you are putting words into my mouth. (well, fingers)
I didn't say it had NO impact, You asked me if I thought it was the cause, and I don't. I think, among many savings that need to be made, it can be a contributing factor to helping improve the situation.

And I'm not sure that means testing and based on income are the same thing. Correct me if I am wrong, but just saying 'You pay the higher tax rate therefor don't qualify for child benefit' is not the same as means testing.

At the end of the day though, none of my arguments really make any difference to the fact that I just feel, morally, that a flat rate child benefit regardless of need is not the way things should be done.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 10:57, closed)

The fact is
the UK as a whole could do with the savings.

The people who lose the benefit won't starve, they'll just mumble into the times for a few months.

Upshot is, the govt can safely do this, the 'victims' will not be marching on Whitehall.

They really should address the dual income thing though, it really is pretty brainless, and doesn't need a genius to figure out.

If they're saying a family on 40k a year don't need the benefit, they should apply that evenly.
(username failed moderation, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 11:06, closed)

Ahem and now for the unjust bit -
Mr Osborne confirmed the cut would hit homes with a single or two high earners but families with two parents on incomes up to £44,000 - which might add up together to over £80,000 - would keep the benefit.
(bROKEN aRROW PUA HVI Master, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 11:12, closed)

Yes, that's
what I was talking about.

It's a different argument to the usual one.

Most gripes are about the poorer people losing. This one is about affluent people winning.
(username failed moderation, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 11:20, closed)

It's just been badly managed
In essence the pittence (£20 per week) that is given anyway should be given to poorer households where it actually makes a difference, that will be a weeks shopping for people in poverty, so agree with your argument from a pratical sense but once again the cabinet of millionaires has got it very wrong.
(bROKEN aRROW PUA HVI Master, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 12:46, closed)

Means testing using income tax thresholds is still means testing.
Y'know what? I think Vagabond is right - this really is dull as fuck.
We should just agree that I am right, and move on. That way, everyone's happy, especially me.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 11:07, closed)

Ah! If you'd phrased it like that before, I'd have realised you were right all along.

( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 11:12, closed)

Cheers!
Closest I've ever come to winning an arguement.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 11:18, closed)

"I think"
Hahahahahaaha bless your cottons.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 11:48, closed)

I conform,
I consume, I obey.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 11:56, closed)

I fail to see what's wrong with 'means testing'
Some old duffers think it means a return to the 1930s or something, but in this digital age, are you really suggesting there isn't some way of doing this without those wishing to apply having to queuing up in a smoky, dingy office and signing on the line every month!!

Flippin' Google could write a piece of code for HMRC to do this in an afternoon.
(Che Grimsdale Best before:, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 12:31, closed)

The top rate of income tax...
...is actually 50% on earnings above £150k a year. If you're employed then I assume the following to be the case.

I assume that you mean you're earning more than £42,475 per annum? If so then it's 40% levied on whatever you earn over and above that amount. Given that your Employees NI contributions for amounts over and above £42,475 fall from 12% to 2%, you're not as worse off as you might think.

The median gross pay (as per April 2010) in the UK was just over £25k a year...if you're in the top ten percentile of earners in the UK (and in the top 1% of earners worldwide) then just how the heck do you justify receipt of a welfare state benefit?

Surely a better place to put the money would (interest on our QE payments, aircraft carriers and Trident subs aside) be a national child minding scheme akin to the system operating in Scandinavia which would mean both parents would be able to work and thus create more wealth?

Just a thought...
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Tue 6 Mar 2012, 13:11, closed)

Once again Pyjamaman steps in with common sense to spare
And I like the idea of proper childcare funded by Govt. This can replace the tax relief on nannies that rich people can also claim, while their poor relatives can't claim for Granny picking up the kids after school five days a week and giving them tea.

[love to the Hen Woman!]
(Che Grimsdale Best before:, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 13:38, closed)

Well maybe
But if our house looses it, I would need a £2.4k payrise to cover the difference. That is a lot of money, no matter who or what you are.
(LetsGetDownToIt, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 15:56, closed)

I went for years without a pay rise
Every time I got an increase I'd have an equal and opposite increase in pension contributions, or I'd have to start paying back student loan, or I'd lose my tax credits, or pay for Sprog to go to Uni. And don't forget tax rises, VAT hikes, inflation...

Need I go on? I need about a £10k rise this year just to put me in the position I was in five/six years ago.

So join the club.
(Che Grimsdale Best before:, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 16:38, closed)

So it does all just boil down to
'Why should I be worse off, I'd rather it was you'
(LetsGetDownToIt, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 16:56, closed)

No, I'm a Cameron-ite
We're all in it together, so let's all agree to whinge as loudly as we can to show our solidarity.

I've given up waiting for any sort of fairness in this world or the next, but I'm learning to live without hope - and like it.
(Che Grimsdale Best before:, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 17:16, closed)

But going without a pay rise is a bit different to taking a £2.5k pay cut.

I have no problem with it being taken away in a fair manner, but have a run down period so people can adjust their financial commitments.
(jono_h, Tue 6 Mar 2012, 19:23, closed)