.
Respect is not commanded, it is earned. Religious/superstitious beliefs do not earn it. Missing this fact is responsible for every atrocity you'll find on this site: www.whatstheharm.net/

Take an African who has caught AIDs since the Pope ran around telling people that it was a worse to use condoms than it was for millions of people to keep dying - was he right to respect the Pope's beliefs? did he even know the Pope's beliefs, or did some other 'tolerant' person interfere with this man's life before he even knew about it?

Tolerance of idiocy kills. As someone who is unable to pretend that that's not happening, it is my duty to preach and rant and offend and rouse, until such time as your personal insecurities are solved without the sacrifice of innocents.

(There you go - I'm sure there's enough stereotype in there for you to straw-man yourself out of acknowledging that it ever happens like that. Go nuts.)
(misanthrope is so adjective he's verbing nouns!, Thu 26 Mar 2009, 15:12, 1 reply)

I'm not saying Religion
gets it right. That's a different argument, I think. But there is a lot of good done by many, many religious groups and that should be taken into account and not dismissed.
Many actions get carried out in religion's name just for convenience sake.
Personally, I think the Pope was way off course.
(SpangoTheWonderBadger is brewing beer, Thu 26 Mar 2009, 15:24, closed)

Another aside: "a lot of good done by many, many religious groups"
Good. Those things should be done anyway.
But when questioned about why they do those things... That's where respect is lost.
\edit - what Cockbrush said below, is the point I was trying to make.
(tweebianmonkey Should be known as Widget, Thu 26 Mar 2009, 15:33, closed)

Not sure what you're saying there.
Are you saying that they're helping other people but also saying you must join the church etc?
And yes, those things should be done anyway, agreed.
(SpangoTheWonderBadger is brewing beer, Thu 26 Mar 2009, 15:36, closed)

Nah not really.
Consider:
"I helped a village in Africa get a clean water supply."
"Good! That's commendable."
"Yes, I believe in doing Jeebus' work."

Personally I find it far more commendable to do those things out of a feeling of solidarity for humanity, rather than because I was told to.
And also, in many cases, because otherwise I'd go to hell.

But Cockbrush said it better...
(tweebianmonkey Should be known as Widget, Thu 26 Mar 2009, 15:40, closed)

That's fine.
I'd help because I can, not because Jesus told me.
But some would argue that I'd be helping because of Jesus.
(SpangoTheWonderBadger is brewing beer, Thu 26 Mar 2009, 15:46, closed)

You are right
There is a lot of good done by many, many religious groups. I just prefer to credit the people doing the good, not their belief system.
(Vice Admiral Sir Charles Cockbrush KCB MBE DSO, who is finding it increasingly difficult to log into b3ta.com wants to duck your aunt and kick your puppy, Thu 26 Mar 2009, 15:35, closed)

.
"But there is a lot of good done by many, many religious groups and that should be taken into account"

A lot of good is done by the religious, true, as is a lot of bad. But, here's the rub: Would these people stop doing good if they weren't god-fearing? Those who wouldn't stop are not good because of religion, they are good people who just happen to be religious. Those who would stop are not good, they are afraid of the consequences of not doing good. There's a world of difference.

"Many actions get carried out in religion's name just for convenience sake.
Personally, I think the Pope was way off course"

But the Popes condemnation of condoms* was not one of those "in religion's name for the sake of it" actions - it's a religious position (every sperm is sacred) forced down the throats of innocents, costing many, many lives. That shit ain't right, and it's not defensible under the tolerance/respect-of-opinions ticket.

If that makes me a preachy atheist, so be it. If that makes me an extremist, so be it.
As little as ranting anonymously does, I will not watch quietly from the sidelines as people die for the sake of other people's opinions.

*try saying that when you're pissed...
(misanthrope is so adjective he's verbing nouns!, Thu 26 Mar 2009, 15:45, closed)

I don't think
it makes you a preachy atheist, you put forward a very valid point about the Pope. When I heard it being announced I just groaned, I mean, really, is the RC Church's view really going to help people? Dear God no!
(SpangoTheWonderBadger is brewing beer, Thu 26 Mar 2009, 15:51, closed)

.
Another thread. Sorry, I wasn't clear. But I am a preachy atheist, and I ain't sorry about it ;)
(misanthrope is so adjective he's verbing nouns!, Thu 26 Mar 2009, 16:15, closed)