I've only been in a few mild skirmishes over the NHS thing
because most people aren't idiots. If they object to the existence of the NHS they get stopped in their tracks by one of two things:

Arguer 1: We should get rid of the NHS. They give terrible care.

Rebuttal: You could always go private.

Arguer 1: Um...

Arguer 2: I HAVE gone private. Now I'm paying taxes to support an institution I don't even use.

Rebuttal: If you think for a second that if the NHS was gone the government would reduce your taxes, despite knowing you can and will pay the taxes you're already paying, then you're stupider than you look.

Arguer 2: But then at least the money would go somewhere useful.

Rebuttal: And people who can't afford private healthcare?

Arguer 2: Fuck the poor. It's Tory time.

Rebuttal: Um...

OK, not stopped in their tracks. They blunder on as usual. but luckily in my experience most people aren't like that.
(StapMyVitals wouldn't mind a bit of that, Tue 16 Mar 2010, 22:31, 7 replies)

I'm not against an opt-out system
whereby you pay your own health insuarance.

I believe there should be tax relief for those that opt out, but that the NHS hospitals and staff remain exclusively NHS without renting staff or ward space to private organisations.

I don't really know enough about how it could be practically put into practice, but I don't think it would be bad to have two or three parallel healthcare schemes - one NHS, and a couple of private organisations. I think it could improve efficiency and may get rid of some of the unneccessary management levels.

As a 40% tax payer (and 11% Nat. Insurance payer) I would like to feel I have some control over where my frankly huge contributions go, and feel that I benefit (or not) accordingly.
( disasterprone "Pyjamas caused the Holocaust", Wed 17 Mar 2010, 6:04, closed)

40% Means a hell of a contribution.
But doesn't providing tax relief for people that opt out create a rather huge gap where people that have the money won't pay and people that need the service can't?

I'm all for getting rid of unnecessary management levels though. Why does every government run entity have to be so bloated and inefficient.
( Gooddeed89, Wed 17 Mar 2010, 11:38, closed)

Why does every government run entity have to be so bloated and inefficient?
The clue is in the question.
(davywavy, Wed 17 Mar 2010, 14:25, closed)

Except, you opt out and go private. But you're knocked unconscious in an accident, and taken to an NHS hospital for large amounts of very expensive treatment.
Do you get this free? Or do you perhaps pay the massive fees yourself? Because anything that involves a private organisation forking over the cash to the NHS is an absolute nightmare of forms, evasions and fuckwittery.
(wellgroomedwookiee is a filthy-minded hobgoblin, Wed 17 Mar 2010, 17:36, closed)

All elected politicians want to lower taxes all the time.
It makes them popular and being popular is what their job security is based on. So yes, they would.

Plus, private medical insurance isn't nearly as expensive as you'd think. Also the fact that taxation causes hardship, so all you're really doing is transferring hardship onto someone else - you're not eliminating it.
(Vlad the Inhaler forgot his password, Wed 17 Mar 2010, 14:58, closed)

Seriously - fuck the poor
Why should they get it free?

I think the American system is far better - take out health insurance. If you can't afford to - you die. Its essentially a capitalistic version of evolution.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 17 Mar 2010, 15:40, closed)

But a lot of the people in trouble *can* afford healthcare
It's the co-pays and deductibles causing the problems. Plus, given half a chance, your insurer will use any means necessary to deny you coverage. Plenty of people begging for reform are insured but struggling with bills caused by beancounters denying claims for silly things like minor pre-existing conditions.

"Oh well, if they had a reason to deny coverage then it's your fault for not getting better coverage or telling your insurer about the headache you had 8 years ago that they used as a pre-exist kicker."

Tell that to the family of 4, with 1 dying parent and 1 working to cover the mortgage, bills and medical expenses of a dying spouse with NO other healthcare coverage.

So it's not just the poor who suffer, everyone does.
(blueberrypossum wants to Jaffa your Cake, Wed 17 Mar 2010, 17:30, closed)