Well, no.
the problem is rather that the NHS (and education for that matter) isn't a business and shouldn't be treated as such. Since it isn't "allowed" to do what a business in the same position would do (refuse to treat patients if it's not commercially viable, etc)

There's no reason the any of the public sector should be going through this. All it needs is a political party in power with the balls to tax both the public and the corporate sector at a fair level.

I'm all for reform of the public sector to remove wastage and shit staff. But this is basically fucking idiocy of the highest order and it will bring the whole country to it's knees.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 14 Jan 2011, 14:37, 1 reply, 15 years ago)

but take that too far
and you end up with the highest earning businesses/individuals being made to support everyone else. which is fine up to the point that it's fair. that point will be different for everyone. after that point, they will simply leave the country to get on with itself, and you end up with another "brain drain" like we had in the 70's when some people were being taxed at 90%.

i am not disputing the morals of it, obviously, but the harsh reality is that nothing comes for free, and if something has got to the point where it is unworkable, even if that has been caused by crap management or government, there has to be a massive shake-up to fix it.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 14 Jan 2011, 14:42, Reply)

There wasn't a brain drain in the 70s.
That's more right wing horseshit.

Apart from anything else, the "brains" in this country aren't paid enough for it to matter what the tax levels are. You can't apply the term "brain drain" when what you mean is "voracious money grabbing scum with the morals of a hyena drain"

and, frankly, if the highest earning individuals don't like it, they can go and live in a country with a tax system that more suits their morals. Companies will not leave. Won't happen. Didn't in the seventies, won't happen now.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 14 Jan 2011, 14:49, Reply)

i am absolutely intrigued
as to why you think people who work hard and want to be able to enjoy the rewards of that should be "money grabbing scum". so i am money grabbing scum because i work the hours i do after about 21 years in education and the last 10 years literally working my arse off, but that makes me "scum" because i resent being made to hand over even more of it to support people who have chosen not to work, or to have tens of children?

why?
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 14 Jan 2011, 15:01, Reply)

Who mentioned you?
I appreciate you do well for yourself but I doubt (no offence) you fall into the catergory of people I'm talking about, who happily feel it's OK to try and hold the country to ransom by threating to take their toys away if tax is increased.

No-one is questioning your right to earn for working hard. But let me ask you, since you take that tack, what gave you the right to be paid more for your hard work than me for my equally hard and equally difficult work? You justifiably answer that and I'll agree that you shouldn't be taxed more than me.

And the "supporting people who don't work" argument is tired and untrue. That's a tiny amount of what your tax pays for.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 14 Jan 2011, 15:13, Reply)

because you chose your job
and i chose mine. you could easily have gone into a job that paid more, you could easily have gone into a job that paid less.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 14 Jan 2011, 15:19, Reply)

That's not an answer
as it in no way justifies why you shouldn't pay more tax than me.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 14 Jan 2011, 15:21, Reply)

yes it does
i went into law for many reasons, but one of the factors was the salary. in return for this salary, it's blood sweat and tears. it's missed weekends. it's cancelled holidays. it's often not leaving the office at all from one day to the next. the recompense is financial. so why should i do all that for less recompense, when i could not work at all and hold my hand out for free stuff and then loll around scratching my arse on it.

distill out the hyperbole and you'll get the point!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 14 Jan 2011, 15:35, Reply)

Indeed. I'm sure it is.
And I work, effectively, all the time. My role is basically three jobs, any one of which would stretch one person, but I have to do all three. I absolutely guarantee you I work as hard as you do. So, why should you be paid more than me?

Like I said, I don't begrudge you your salary for a second. But until you can justify why you're worth more than me, then you can't justify why you shouldn't pay more tax.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 14 Jan 2011, 15:46, Reply)

Straw man.
Are you suggesting that we can all have 100k jobs if we wanted? Societal pressure says otherwise.

Sorry to bust in, I am massively enjoying the discussion.
( Kroney, Fri 14 Jan 2011, 15:21, Reply)

This is my point
there's nothing in rswipes job that makes it "worth" more or less than, say, mine - she's paid more because that's how capitalism works, and I have no problem with that, as she freely says, my choice. I can and have worked in the private sector for much more money in the past and I still do on a consultancy basis when I have the time.

But since it isn't "worth" more then I can't think of one single justifiable argument why she shouldn't pay more tax.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 14 Jan 2011, 15:27, Reply)

because i don't want to??

( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 14 Jan 2011, 15:30, Reply)

It's an honest answer
but sadly it's not a valid one. I don't want to pay any more tax either!
( Kroney, Fri 14 Jan 2011, 15:32, Reply)

honest, m'dear
very honest.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 14 Jan 2011, 15:34, Reply)

Didn't you cure cancer?
(in moths) I don't think there's many jobs that can ever be better than that.
(PsychoChomp, Fri 14 Jan 2011, 15:31, Reply)

not morally, maybe
but we can't all do that. every job contributes to society.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 14 Jan 2011, 15:32, Reply)

haha, I'm not playing the moral card.
that would be a shit argument. I don't think people like firemen and nurses should necessarily be paid more, either. But I do think the more well of should pay more tax. Well, everyone should pay more tax, but you know what I mean.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 14 Jan 2011, 15:36, Reply)

I think you may be confusing me, there
although I'm glad you reminded me of that genius thread, who was it again?
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 14 Jan 2011, 15:33, Reply)

Ah here it is
www.b3ta.com/talk/5544929
(PsychoChomp, Fri 14 Jan 2011, 15:38, Reply)

Oh, that's fucking WIN.
Even I have to take some pleasure in that.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 14 Jan 2011, 15:52, Reply)