I don't think it quite qualifies you for a nationality
based on the fact your mum can cook sauerkraut. And the orange of St Pats day is just bizarre
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 21 Mar 2011, 23:59, 2 replies, latest was 15 years ago)

Ancestry, not nationality.
Over here that counts for a lot, actually. Go to South Boston and tell them they're not Irish. It will not be pretty.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:02, Reply)

Really?
that is pretty ridiculous especially for a nation obsessed with being American
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:03, Reply)

Careful now.
Not all of us are flag waving zealots- in fact, the people flying American flags from their houses are a very small minority. Most of the rest of us just sigh and roll our eyes most of the time.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:12, Reply)

But it is no less daft than hankering after a country most of them have never visited.

( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:14, Reply)

I think I start to see the root of the misunderstanding here.
Over here, to be American means to be a legal citizen of the US, just as one would expect. But we're also considered to be the world's melting pot, with people coming from everywhere to become Americans. So people generally give a nod to their ancestry by calling themselves African American, Irish American, Mexican American, German American, Italian American and so on. Usually this is done by people whose families have strong traditions around their ancestral origins.

If you go to NYC, for instance, you'll find that the people in Little Italy may have a New Yawk accent but refer to themselves as Italian. As mentioned elsewhere, the people in south Boston take extreme pride in their Irish ancestry. I would say that the vast majority over here have a pretty good idea of where their ancestors came from, and identify somewhat with that group.

So for me, saying that I'm German/Irish means that I have ancestors who came relatively recently from those countries. It's a verbal shorthand of sorts. No, I have never been to, much less lived in, either country- I'm an American. But I acknowledge that some of my family's influences came from there, just as my friend Dan Ribuffo's family have a lot of Italian traditions despite having been generations removed from Europe.

It's not a longing for those places, it's a nod toward what influences run in our families.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:27, Reply)

That actually makes a bit of sense
now I have a bit more context. It's differentiating between "I'm Irish" meaning I'm from Ireland and I'm obviously American, and not claiming otherwise, but with Irish roots.
( djtrialprice, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 2:04, Reply)

Thing that irks me more than them 'claiming' to be Irish
Was the fact that for years, Irish bars would pass around the collecting tin for 'the struggle' and then they all bleated like they were the first people in the world to experience terrorism after 9/11.

If these people hadn't directly funded terror, I might have a small bit of sympathy.
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:05, Reply)

Do Boston Irish people go for orange on St. Patrick's day?

( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:05, Reply)

I'm not certain of there
but Tipperary Hill in Syracuse would often have people wearing orange on the 17th, just not many of them. But because they were expressing their respect for their Irish ancestry, it was accepted without problems.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:10, Reply)

Without problem?
Or without any understanding of what it represents in current times?
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:15, Reply)

William of Orange was Dutch
and I think the Orange Lodge largely celebrate the fact that the English/Scottish protestants defeated the Catholics in Ireland.
Someone Irish might have to correct me here.
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:16, Reply)

Yup, orange is a Proddydog colour.
After William of Orange. The Dutch were very Protestant.
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:21, Reply)

Do orangemen consider themselves Irish?
There are none in Eire are there?
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:24, Reply)

Orangemen consider themselves British
you don't get any in the Republic. Anybody wearing orange on St Patricks is really weirdly deficient in any knowledge of Irish history as opposed to Northern Irish
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:25, Reply)

Loon?
Want to make a claim on being British?
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:26, Reply)

As I recall
I do have some ancestors who came from England, Scotland and Wales, but that was about eight generations or more back. My maternal grandmother has traced her ancestry back to the Mayflower.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:29, Reply)

But if you are of a religious 'bent' (rather than bender! :) )
You could go back to Adam and Eve and then lay claim to global ancestry.

There has got to be more to it than being proud of your ancestry, as this strange trait seems to be linked mostly with Americans. Whilst I agree your country is a melting post of different backgrounds, the same could be said of any continent, things are pretty diverse in Britain.
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:36, Reply)

True enough that you're a diverse lot
but your country has been around a lot longer than this one has.

Consider: when people immigrate, it tends to be human nature to congregate with others from your homeland, right? So you have areas of your towns that have a higher percentage of Polish or Pakistanis than people whose great ancestors all lived in that area. I would guess that if you asked people who were second or third generation from Pakistan, they'd probably identify in some way with being of Pakistani origin.

Now look at America. The Europeans pretty much laid the Native Americans to waste and started filling up the country. People poured into here over the past couple hundred years, and tended to keep to their own. Ethnic groups tend to not mix very much, as I'm sure you've noticed. Over here they considered themselves as different from the people who had already been here for a few generations, descended from Western Europe and Britain, so they started identifying themselves by their ancestral origins. I would say that it's a trait that's about as old as this country itself. For a fact it's the way of most people over here.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:47, Reply)

To a point yes.
But Britain would fit within the landmass of California, by some margin, so it isn't a fair comparison.

We are also an island race.

Fair enough if we agree that American was founded in 1776? But surely that is long enough to establish your own identity?
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 1:00, Reply)

We do have an identity.
And that's as a cultural melting pot. *laugh*

Seriously, though, there are parts of this country that show pretty strong influences by various ethnic groups. Another example is the northern Midwest- Minnesota and the Dakotas. Ever seen the movie "Fargo"? Did you note their rather Norwegian-sounding accents? They really do talk like that there. And lutefisk is actually pretty common out there as well. Garrison Keillor exaggerates it a bit at times, but not by that much.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Tue 22 Mar 2011, 1:09, Reply)

I thought so...
Ta.
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:27, Reply)

You do!
There are some lodges in forrin parts like Donegal (so still Ulster). They have a wee walk around with a band on the twelfth and nobody really minds. Pretty much how it goes in my parents' neck of the woods too.

Orange on St. Patrick's day is insane though.

Edit: Rossnowlagh, I think.
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 10:45, Reply)

It would be considered antagonistic here,
Like when me and my dad were watching an orange parade because it was en route to my nana's and my dad didn't want me to dislike anyone when I was growing up. But I was dressed head-to-foot in green.
We didn't do it on purpose, but we were on the Catholic leg of the journey and there was I in green. It did not go down well.
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:04, Reply)

I had the full-on Catholic education.

( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:05, Reply)

As did I.
-guilt fives-
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:07, Reply)

Taught by nuns and everything.

( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:08, Reply)

There were only a few nuns left by the time I got to my school.

( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:10, Reply)

And then there were nun?

( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:15, Reply)

Zackly.

( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:16, Reply)

Ah not that full on.
State school, prayers 4 times a day, mass on Fridays, school pilgrimages to Wales...
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:10, Reply)

Mine was a state school.
Although I am probably of a generation where the teaching qualification were less important than someones commitment to the church.
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:13, Reply)

Ma was educated by nuns, in a convent and all.

( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:17, Reply)

They could be quite violent.
A strange breed, your average nun.
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:25, Reply)

Religion and celibacy will do that to a person.
I don't get many of the aspects of Catholicism.
(berk, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:28, Reply)

No.
But then I've of the opinion that no parent has any right to choose a childs religion.

Having had catholisim forced on me as a child, and with me being an overly committed atheist, I'm annoyed that I was forced to waste Sunday mornings in mass.
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:38, Reply)

Mine got me baptised and I made my Communion
but after that they said it was up to me, because they'd stopped going to church and I went with my nana. I stopped when I was 10/11.
I asked why they took it that far when they weren't religious themselves and my mum said "Just in case..." like it was insurance for my soul!
My dad used to whisper in my ear about the Vatican playing the stockmarket with what we'd just put in the collection plate.
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:43, Reply)

My folks still go.
I was put through both primary and secondary education and was confirmed.

Any idea how I get excommunicated?
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:47, Reply)

I didn't get confirmed.
Nana goes but she's dead cool and knows that half of the shit the Pope spouts about condoms and 'oh I didn't know there were paedos' and the homophobia is balls.
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:50, Reply)

My folks like to 'believe the bits that appeal to them'
They don't even get any comfort from their belief, it's more of a social club to them (I think).
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 1:01, Reply)

I am culturally a Catholic.
Because of my family and my education and stuff.
But I didn't go and shout obscenities at the Lodge like the other kids round my way.
I don't like how they seem to be celebrating negative things and being all antagonistic, but each sees his own side and no other. My dad will play the Sash on harmonica for my cousin's father-in-law when he visits, as a joke. Liverpool's not as sectarian as it was.
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 22 Mar 2011, 0:09, Reply)