Having to wait 4 weeks to see a doctor
is a fucking disgrace too. And not being able to choose the one you want as well. The fact that they don't do one smear test, ultrasound and breasts check once per year... I could go on...
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:15, 1 reply, 15 years ago)

How much does it cost to have an ultrasound?
Or a smear test? Or a breast check?

What are the downsides of having all these regular check ups? I'm thinking that you don't really want to be having breast X-rays unless you need them because 1) they are uncomfortable, and 2) blasting radiation at your tits isn't great.

So, somebody has done a cost benefit analysis of either screening everyone all the time at massive expense and inconvenience, or only screening people who are most likely to have the diseases you're screening for. Because the NHS does not have a bottomless budget.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:19, Reply)

I'd think not that much
On a private clinic the ultrasound is something like £50, so the real cost will probably be a lot less than half of it. That includes a picture that you don't need when it's just a normal test. The breast check is done by hand by the doctoc, who checks for cysts, no machines are used there. That's 5 extra minutes or their time.

And I suppose that budget includes as well that you can wait 4 weeks to see a GP and if things get worse then, well, that's ok as the cost benefit analysis says so.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:26, Reply)

The cost benefits are done, and I've been involved in a couple
but the main reason for nearly everything the NHS does is clinical.

With screening it's maily the problem with false positives. They mean you then have to take biopsies and shit, which have a risk of infection pain discomfort etc.
(PsychoChomp, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:29, Reply)

If you've got a family history
or you're at risk they'll screen often, there's no point doing blanket checks for everyone when 90% of breast cancer for example comes from the 30% of the population with family history.
(PsychoChomp, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:30, Reply)

Quite

(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:31, Reply)

I'm just talking
about checking breasts by the doctor with his hands, similar to the one you do at home, but making sure he doesn't miss anything, as he's better trained. Not talking about the screening.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:38, Reply)

Just pop to mine we can have some wine, I can check your breasts no problems

(PsychoChomp, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:41, Reply)

This post is best if you read it in a "greek kebab van guy" voice.

(PsychoChomp, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:43, Reply)

Hahaha
I might do, who knows.

I keep going to my doctor in Spain once per year, but he's very old now (and looks like Benny Hill) so you might get lucky.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:45, Reply)

Get Mark to do it for you.
He'll be all over that.
( Noeli overtheshoulderboulderholderthingstraplatchboobs, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:49, Reply)

Don't kid yourself that the GP is better trained.
You know your breasts better than anyone. If you think there's something different then see the doctor and be insistent.
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:50, Reply)

No, I don't see a GP for that
I see a gynecologist, who is for a fact, better trained than me to do it.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:55, Reply)

How on earth would a GP doing a check with his hands be any use?
He's not an oncologist, and anyway, even if he was, what you are looking for is changes over time and abnormal lumps - the only person that can spot that realistically is you.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:53, Reply)

See above
In Spain you don't need to go to a GP first to be referred to the specialist, you contact the specialist directly and visit him. I'd see my gynecologist for this, who is trained on it. And as he does it every year, he know what to expect.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:56, Reply)

I'm glad Spaniards have such great memories
because I sometimes forget what divots and scars are on my scalp and I probably scratch that once or twice a day. So for him to be able to remember what changed from a year ago is bloody spectacular.

Of course you could just be a massive hypochondriac.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:59, Reply)

That's why
he writes it down, so that he remembers for next time. You're just being silly now, you know?
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:02, Reply)

I'm being silly? And you're saying he writes down exactly how your tits feel?
No, you are being extremely silly if you think that a written description of a pair of tits can provide any better information than you carrying out regular two, three or six monthly checks yourself.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:05, Reply)

No, I'm not saying that
and you're being really stupid now. If there's something that doesn't feel right, he'll check. If it's ok, nothing wrong with it, he'll write it down.

As I said bellow, he know what he's looking for. I don't know how a cyst feels. I do the checks myself, but I like someone else to corroborate I'm doing them right.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:19, Reply)

To hundreds of women, though
how can he possibly remember one set of breasts?
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:59, Reply)

He writes it down
He's looking for things that are wrong, if he finds something abnormal and finally it's something that it's not bad, he writes it down and next time he knows.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:03, Reply)

You do realise that your breasts change texture and feel
over the course of every month, which is why you are advised to check yourself at the same time each month.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:06, Reply)

Yes
Do you know how a cyst feels, and, if you know what you're looking for, you can't miss it? I don't know what I'm looking for, though. I check if everything seems ok, but I have no idea what I should be expecting. He does.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:17, Reply)

If you found something, you *would* know
And there's a very strong possibility that the doctor - any specialist you care to mention - wouldn't know what it was until further tests were done.
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:21, Reply)

This^^
You're looking for anything which is different form "normal", and only you are going to know what normal is by doing regular checks yourself.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:25, Reply)

And
I want someone who know about it to re-check that I'm doing it right. I might have missed a spot, or just thought that doesn't feel too bad.

Most of the cancers in Spain are found by the Gyn. Women usually don't do the checks themselves, this way you make sure they get checked at least once a year.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:35, Reply)

But you should be checking yourself more than once a year
Every month or two, because if their is a tumor, you could be dead within a year.

And if you're not sure how to do it, doctors and nurses can show you how and there is so much information available about this.

But going to see a doctor to have your tits fondled is neither cost efficient, nor a good way of picking up potential problems.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:41, Reply)

It's a good way of picking problems
it's how most of them are found in Spain. Women a lot of times miss the cysts. Or think it's just an ingrowing hair or some fat. It's good to have a second opinion. And it takes him 5min to do it.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:47, Reply)

No, it is not a good way of identifiying problems, I just said, once a year is too infrequent to be a useful screen
If you find something you are concerned about, you go and see your GP who may examine you, or refer you to a specialist. But as I just said, you're looking for changes and you are going to be the best person to know if something has changed.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:50, Reply)

It's not bad
It's a way to make sure women get a check at least once per year. We have to do it every month, yes, but most don't do it. And it's a good way to get reassurance that you're doing it right and that things are still ok.

Again, they pick most of them. Very few women find them themselves.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:55, Reply)

You do realise that a woman in this country
is perfectly capable of going to see a GUI clinic for a general check up once a year if she wants, she just has to arrange an appointment herself, hardly a massive inconvenience.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:59, Reply)

No, I wasn't aware of that
And I think that's very good, specially if you don't need your GP first to tell you that you can go. In that case, I retract myself about the breast cancer check. I still think the other things are wrong, but well... And they could give us some info about that GUI thing too, when we have the smear test at least.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:02, Reply)

You might be interested in this, actually
Spain's mortality for breast cancer is about 20/100,000 as opposed to 27/100,000 in the UK. That's enough of a difference to maybe be significant, except that breast cancer is much lower in southern european countries than northern ones regardless of heathcare systems (the Dutch and the Danes have rates in the 40/100,000 for instance, the only nothern exception is Norway). So it's much more likely to be diet and climate and genetic factors than a man motorboating you once a year. But it's interesting, for sure.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:14, Reply)

I'm sure the diet and stress play a big game there
I'm pretty sure most of those cancers were diagnosed by gyns.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:18, Reply)

i'm sure they were
I'm just making the point that self-diagnosis is obviously at least as good or we'd have a brutally higher mortality rate.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:22, Reply)

Also
if GPs or Obs/Gyn guys here started doing manual breast examns annually then the sexual harassment panda would be all over them like they were bamboo.

I'm intrigued that a gynaecologist has convinced people he knows about breast cancer, though. That's some top fibbing work
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:26, Reply)

They get better trainning than here
for what you say.

And here, for everything the Doc has to do to you, there's a female nurse to check everythings fine. And he asks you everytime he's going to touch you if it's ok (which I find a bit irritating, but I understand)
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:33, Reply)

gynaecology's still got bugger all to do with cancer though
they'd be no better at spotting a tumour than your average car mechanic.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:36, Reply)

They are
You don't know what you're saying. They do find most of the tumours in breasts in Spain. Women fail to feel them sometimes, or just can't be bothered to do the check themselves.

He's been told as well as an oncologist, how to check for them. And not only breast, but ovaries and uterus cancers or cysts, using ultrasound. That's how most of them are found too, on your annual visit to the gynecologist. An early diagnose is the most important thing to fight cancer.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:49, Reply)

OK, but
if he's specialising in both gynaecology AND oncology he's going to be no better than average at both. There's a reason for extreme specialism in the medical profession.

Ovarian and uterus and cervical cancers are absolutely picked up in your biannual screen here too. But not by the bloke that does the smear, by the lab it's sent to, which is a specialist oncology lab. I'm sure that's same in Spain.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:03, Reply)

You see?
I don't know what that biannual screen is. I only get a smear test every 5 years here.

The Gyn specializes on women's reproductive system, and that includes spotting the beginning of a cancer or a cyst. Maybe that's why his degree takes 7 years + 3 of training at the hospital.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:17, Reply)

that's odd
every woman I've ever lived with has had it every 2 years. Bi-annual. sorry for confusing words.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:23, Reply)