Erm, how do you go to the right doctor from the beginning?
That would mean the person making the decision about what's wrong with them is you, then?
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:54, 2 replies, latest was 15 years ago)

Now stop that Badger
it's perfectly clear that the average Spaniard is far better qualified to determine what's wrong with them than any doctor in the UK.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:56, Reply)

Having seen what I have seen
I agree with you mostly.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:01, Reply)

Well, if you're not sure about what you have
you see your GP first. Or if you choose your doctor wrong, he'll refer you to the right one. But usually you know. If you have pain in your bones or articulations, you go to the reumatologist (Spanglish there, sorry); if you're bleeding out of time, you go to the gynecologist. If your back hurts, you go to the traumatologist. If you belly hurts, you go to the digestive system doctor. If your throat, nose or ears hurt, otorrinolaringólogo (??). Easy. Otherwise you call like the NHS direct, explain the symptons and they tell you who you should visit.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:59, Reply)

And for the vast majority of those issues
you don't need a specialist doctor, a GP would be perfectly adequate, and if they consider there to be a need, they refer you.

These are not intrinsic problems with the NHS, they are perfectly reasonable.

There are problems, going back to arguing by annecdote, I dislocated my knee, I saw my doctor, he sent me for a cat scan, the results came back, he said there was nothing wrong with my knee, this took over a month. I went to see my chiropractor a week later for a regular checkup, he checked my knee, popped it back into place a the next day I was walking normally again.

But I'm not condemming the whole NHS for that.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:03, Reply)

That way
Your GP gets saturated and doesn't have time for everybody; but the other way round, the work gets distributed.

I'm not talking about annecdotes. I'm talking about standards. No private bedrooms in hospitals, for example.

It doesn't matter. You like what you have. I think it could be improved. I'm not going to change your mind, you won't change mine. I've gone several times through nightmares with the doctors here. Not just one annecdote.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:09, Reply)

that's all that a GP is for, though. What else does he need time for?
And, swings and roundabouts. Private rooms would be better, aye. But they are expensive. On the other hand, French-style medical systems are almost single-handedly resposible for the last couple of waves of antibiotic-resistant bacteria due to their insane pandering to idiot patients who demand antibiotics for viruses. I'll be honest, medically I know what I'd prefer.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:14, Reply)

Yep, I think your system with the GPs would be good
if you didn't have to go crying and covered in blood (I might be exagerating a bit) to be referred to a specialist.

I know I have IBS. I know why it hurts. I know the stomach doctor know what to do. Please, don't send me home with paracetamol and telling me to take more fiber!
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:31, Reply)

Erm
there aren't any treatments for IBS apart from painkillers and more fibre/better diet. Sending you to a gastro specialist won't change that, I'm afraid. At least to my knowledge, and gastro isn't my field to be fair, but I thought that was pretty well known medically. Antispasmodics sometimes work, but since the best of those is peppermint you don't really need a doctor for that.

you have my sympathy though, it's horribly painful thing.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:41, Reply)

Yep
But the gastro specialist will check that it hasn't developed into cancer, as it's quite common, and that all that extra pain is not just gas on my bowels.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:13, Reply)

well, no, because most things are nowhere near as simple as that medically
but I can see that it would work for certain obvious things.

But it just sounds like the French system. It sounds wonderful, but everyone in the medical profession accepts it's mental, because it's massively resource-hungry (you need a specialist in every town regardless of how much actual work they have, for instance) and it hugely panders to the patient when the fundamental problem is that people are, in general, idiots, and hyponcondriac idiots at that.

But, really, all that is really going on is that you grew up in Spain, are used to the system there, and so prefer it. You don't get on with the NHS because it doesn't work like you want it to so you don't know how to make it work properly for you. Exactly the same would be true if I went to Spain or France or whatever. Doesn't make one system better than the other for the reasons either of us mention.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:05, Reply)

You are probably right
I'd be happier with the NHS if I could see a doctor in less than a week when I need him. If I didn't have to convince him that I'm in trouble to see a specialist. If I didn't have to share a ward when being sick at the hospital. If the nurses were trained to take blood and put intravenous as standard, not like an optional training course.

Yes, it's probably just me being picky.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:12, Reply)

you're obviously some kind of magnet for the special needs ;)
You can see a doctor same day anywhere provided you phone at the right time, they are obliged to keep a number of appointments free every day. I must admit I don't undertand the obsession with private rooms, it's a massive waste of resources and means nurses can't keep an eye on multiple patients simultaneously. I'd be worried about the blood/IV thing too but that's hardly common.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:18, Reply)

I must be, clearly
I have several problems like thalassemia, an extra bone in my back, chronic tonsilitis... everytime I go to the doctor here, I'm in trouble. Every time. They don't listen to me, tell me everything's ok, give me some antibiotics, and off you go. I'm still in pain, A&E didn't know why, they send me back to the GP and I know what he's going to tell me. It's a wast of time.

To see the doctor at any time of day you must take the day off and wait at home or nearby until they call you. Which is not very useful. If they'd let you see a doctor near your place of work would make some sense, but they don't.

The time I was in hospital 5 days, only 1 nurse was trained to do IV. In my whole ward. That's not an annecdote. The annecdote is that she did it wrong and I ended up with my muscle full of antibiotics, unable to move it and big like my chest.

The problem with the ward is that you have no intimacy. That the other people that are worse than you can really be very creepy (really, 5 nights of "Please, let me dye!" are not good for anyone). In a private room, you won't see the nurse so much, but you can have company all the time, visits are allowed all day, so they'll tell the nurse if something goes wrong.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:25, Reply)

you're clearly very unlucky with this country then!
and, look - I appreciate why you might WANT a private room, but that's not an argument for why it's better to have one, except for just from your point of view. The hospital's job is to get as many people better as possible for the least amount of money. People not having privacy is not high on the priority list. Needs of the many far outweigh the personal preferences of the individual. Giving you a private room ain't going to make you better quicker.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:32, Reply)

It might do
Being in a ward is terribly depressing. Being shown around when you're half naked is not good. Having the doctor to examin you and give results in front of everybody is not good. Makes you feel bad and doesn't help to recover faster.

I know money is a problem, but I think things are not done properly on the NHS. The private room is the smaller of the problems. I gave you a list, I can give you more, like failing to spot mononucleosis after a month. Not because they couldn't find anything wrong, but because they couldn't care to refer to the specialist and have some tests done. Nope. Antibiotics and go home. We had to go to Spain and have it diagnosed and treated there.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:43, Reply)

there's a reason for that.
You can't treat mono so the test is merely to eliminate other things, and is basically a massive waste of money. Did they do a bacterial/virus screen here? If not, it does sound like you've been getting some crappy doctors, but a mono test is pointless unless you're pregnant or they have a reason to suspect you have HIV

What did they give you to treat it in Spain? I'm genuinely intrigued as there is no treatment.

Edit - also, I've double checked on that and you can't pick up EBV antibodies until you've had mono about 3 weeks anyway, so a test in the first month is doubly pointless.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:55, Reply)

Sorry?
You do treat it to aleviate the symptoms. And you're told to stay at home and rest, not to take antibiotics and keep on your normal life. You can get very sick if you don't rest, and even lose your... bazo? spleen? mmm... I'm not sure.

A month is more than 3 weeks. They could have at least tried something different, after a month of fever and tiredness and no use from the antibiotics.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:09, Reply)

rarely you get a mild case of hepatitis, again untreatable
and, yes, you can very rarely get an inflamed spleen. But knowing what it is doesn't prevent that and you still can't treat it. Alleviation of the symptoms are the same as they would be for anything with the symptoms - NSAIDs, painkillers, fluids. Knowing it's mono doesn't help you one bit with any of those.

I know that to you this seems madness, because you've been brought up with a healthcare system that would have tested, but the only single advantage to testing is that you know. It doesn't help you, it costs a fortune and as it's an antibody level test it's inaccurate and massively open to interpretation.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:20, Reply)

Oh, yes
that's what my boyfriend got. Hepatitis from the mononucleosis! When we got to Spain he had developed it already. Maybe it was more than a month, then.

Well, I think if he had been told to rest and not move until he was well, he wouldn't have developed the hepatitis. Maybe not. They told him to keep going to work as normal, and he was probably spreading it around too. I only got mild symptoms and got over it quickly.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:23, Reply)

yeah, see this is the difference
between the systems. I don't understand why you need to be TOLD to rest if you are ill. Or, more specifically, why you need to know what's wrong with you to have to rest. Not having a go at your boyfriend, again, obviously that's just what you are used to. It just seems really obvious to me.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:26, Reply)

BTW
I've lived in Sweeden, the Netherlands and Belgium. No probs there to see a doctor in less than a week. Even without prove of residence. All I need is my E-111 and they're happy, wherever I am.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:15, Reply)

I keep telling you
you can see a doctor without proof of residence. You're just going about it the wrong way and trying to register as a permanent patient, which for obvious reasons you can't do without proof of address. It's not the fault of the NHS, just that you aren't used to how to use it.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:19, Reply)

But why?
No, if I'm living 6 months in a hotel in Sweeden, I can see the same doctor everytime I need. If I need a treatment, that's good.

In Worthing, the most I got as a temporary patient was one visit. They won't follow my treatment because I'm not registered and I'm moving home soon.

That means a month without treatment. Not good, not.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:28, Reply)

And, as I've said already
I registered with them as soon as I came back from hols and got my first appointment for tomorrow. Very fast, isn't it?
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:29, Reply)

If you want an appointment on the day
you phone them when they open and say you specifically need an emergency appointment. You get one that day.

It might sound like I'm having a go and I'm really not, I'm just pointing out that the faults here aren't with the NHS, just that you're not used to how to use it to get what you want
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:35, Reply)

I've been living here 6 years
and gone to the doctor many times. You only get a day appointment if it's an emergency. And you have to take the day out of work. I'm talking about being able to go to the doctor near the place you work if you want. Being able to choose your doctor.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:37, Reply)

well, yeah.
if it isn't an emergency, why does it matter if it takes a week to see them? that's rather the definition of "emergency"

being able to choose your doctor is a matter for debate. I can see why there are advantages, but they are selfish from the point of view of the patient. The system doesn't allow it, and that's how it is. Why do you need a doctor near work anyway? surely if you are so ill that you need to see a doctor right away you'd be off work?
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:46, Reply)

No, you're wrong again
You might be having a problem that still allows you to go to work. Upset stomach maybe. Maybe a cold that feels like a flu. Maybe a lot of pain in your ovaries, as I have now. I can go to work. It's not an emergency because I'm not bleeding. Therefore, that means 4 weeks of paracetamol until I see a doctor. OK, normally it would have been only 1 week, maybe 2, still it's a lot of time to be like this, not only for the pain, but for the stress that comes with not knowing what you have (I already went to A&E, they touched me here and there and told me to go to my GP)

If I could go to the doctor near work, I could work tomorrow and just take some hours for the appointment. As I have to go in Worthing, I need to take the whole day off.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:53, Reply)

You're bringing the problem on yourself
because you are the one refusing to take time off work. Seriously, it's you're own fault and yet you're blaming a system which could help you, but you've got to give a little too.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:57, Reply)

What?
I'm taking the time off work. Of course I am. After 4 weeks trying to see someone!! I haven't spent this 4 weeks not wanting to go, they couldn't visit me before. In fact, they gave me an appointment for next Tuesday and I asked it to be changed to Friday, so that I only lose 1 day, rather than 2.

What I don't think it's ok is that you have to take the day off for what probably is only a cystitis. And that you can't choose where you want to be treated.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:00, Reply)

No, no, no
You said you had to wait 4 weeks to see a doctor at a set time. Badger has pointed out that if you need an appointment that day that you can get one but you said that you would have to take the day off. Which is not unreasonable.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:02, Reply)

No
I said I had to wait 4 weeks this time, as I said several times that I tried to get the appointment after the hols but had to go through the whole registering thing and stuff. Normally it'd take 1 week, 2 at most. I know that.

It's that stupid registering process that I don't understand. And why I can't see the doctor where I want.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:11, Reply)

And again
I can't follow a treatment on a temporary registration.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:37, Reply)

I don't understand what you mean by
"follow a treatment" ? If you've got a longstanding condition with a prescription then all you need is a repeat, surely?
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:43, Reply)

No
It needs to be tested to make sure the medicines are still right, as it changes quite quickly.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:45, Reply)

since I don't know what's being treated
I can't comment, but maybe you have found a loophole in the system then - if you move around a lot but have a longstanding medical issue than the NHS lets you down.

It's still basically brilliant, though. whatever you think.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:51, Reply)

I think it's not bad
But it could be improved. A lot.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:54, Reply)