or, you might say they have prevented it from rising even further

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 5 Dec 2012, 11:52, 1 reply, 12 years ago)

no, they really haven't
that's really not how it works.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 5 Dec 2012, 11:58, Reply)

yeah it does

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 5 Dec 2012, 12:06, Reply)

It doesn't
in order to reduce a deficit you also need to stimulate the economy. It doesn't exactly work like a bank loan. To be massively simplistic, you need to keep as much theoretical money in circulation as possible whilst trying to cut what you spend. Public sector expenditure stays in circulation, so cutting it hammers the economy. Osborne and the treasury* are well aware of this, freely addmitted it, but said they thought the private sector would increase spending to more than cover it. Didn't happen, was never going to fucking happen.

Increasing tax across the board raises revenues but also reduces what can be spent within the country because it hits those who are just breaking even in general. So shafts the economy as well.

Taxing the weathly or corporations more will work, because it is recovering money that is either not spent at all or moved out of the UK. Of course, they may threaten to leave the UK entirely, but then you're left with a strategy that might fail rather than ones like those above which an A-level economy student can spot the flaws in.

*I'm not suggesting the treasury did this willingly. They are more aware of how much of a fucking tool Osborne is than the rest of us. It's just he's ultimately in charge
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 5 Dec 2012, 12:14, Reply)

Yeah but you've missed a big point
Idealogically the tories yearn for a smaller state, by wrapping up the reduction in nstate spending as essential austerity to baslance the books they can do so with less push back from the public, political genius.

Also, the private sector hasn't filled the gap as planned, however at the beggining of all oif this, no one guessed thye global economic "downturn" would last so long. Had there been a stronger global and European recovery the plan may have worked better. Hindsight innit.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 5 Dec 2012, 12:19, Reply)

It's not genius, because it's obvious and it's going to cost them the next election, making it idiocy - but yeah, you're right it's politically motivated.
Doesn't make it any less retarded.

And your point is a good one except the UK private sector is hideously unbalanced in favour of things that are much less use in an economic downturn. Like the service industry. And, to be honest, quite a number of economists predicted it would last at least this long if not much longer. Osborne just ignored them.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 5 Dec 2012, 12:25, Reply)

I can't be bothered looking up links or whatever so you'll just have to take my word for it.
But if you look at the things Cameron, Osborne, Gove, etc. were saying before they were in power, even before the economic downturn, these were always their plans.
They are ideological cuts, not economic cuts.

+n +n
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 5 Dec 2012, 12:31, Reply)

yeah, I'm pretty sure you, me and nakers are in agreement on that.
What's retarded is that in order for it to be useful as a political ideaology, it had to at least stand a decent chance of working. Because now what they've done is fucked it up and lied about it, as opposed to either/or.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 5 Dec 2012, 12:34, Reply)

There's too much agreement going on here for this to work properly
So I'll just call Nakers a cunt:
NAKERS YOU ARE A CUNT.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 5 Dec 2012, 12:37, Reply)

I'm going for lunch
that offers prime opportunity for you to accuse me of touching goats.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 5 Dec 2012, 12:38, Reply)

That's precisely the sort of thing I'd expect from a goat-toucher like you.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 5 Dec 2012, 12:39, Reply)

Economists bhave been predicting such a wide range of scenarios and outcomes, you have to ignore someone
I agree with your second point, we are never going to be a manufacturing powerhouse, but that doesn't mean we can't make or design things of value that can continue to contribute tio the economy even in tough times, ARM chips would be a classic example.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 5 Dec 2012, 12:32, Reply)

Yeah, good point about economists.
I'd suggest not ignoring your own treasury though, which is what he did. They are, after all, the ones who actually know how this shit works.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 5 Dec 2012, 12:35, Reply)

true, but let's be honest. How often have we looked at the tereasurey and thought wtf are they doing?
no one is 100% correct on matters like this as it involves predicting the future!
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 5 Dec 2012, 12:40, Reply)

well, you very rarely get to find out what the treasury are doing
their job is to advise the government. The point is they know much, muhc more about it than the government. So, if they government listen to the treasury and it still goes tits up, that's unfortunate, and as you rightly say, you can't always predict the future. But if, as a government, you ignore your own treasury and it goes tits up, that's being really really fucking stupid.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 5 Dec 2012, 13:22, Reply)