We're at our skintest since 1946
You're the chancellor.

You're also £57bn in the red and that figure is going to climb due to falling tax revenues as spending is squeezed due to a shrinking economy.

Do you:

a) Slash government spending
b) Hike taxes make up the shortfall
c) Redraft Treasury rules so that you can borrow more

Discuss.
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Fri 18 Jul 2008, 13:10, 25 replies, latest was 16 years ago)

They'll' probably put on a light show
somewhere foreign and bomb a few thousand darkies. That usually distracts the plebs from being broke.
(bazmorningstar efil4nat3b, Fri 18 Jul 2008, 13:15, Reply)

d) hold up your hands and say
sorry, we don't actually want the olympics

or e)shit your pants and ban reporting of government financial matters
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 18 Jul 2008, 13:15, Reply)

Vipros's option d)
would be a good start.

Alternatively, how about identifying the sponging twats who are draining our benefits system dry because they have no intention of working, rounding them up and killing/exporting them?

And then doing the same with politicians.
( K2k6 has a proper job these days, Fri 18 Jul 2008, 13:22, Reply)

@k2k6
I like the cut of your gib, sir! Mob justice for parasites! Let's be avin' ya!
(bazmorningstar efil4nat3b, Fri 18 Jul 2008, 13:28, Reply)

Of course...
It does help that your party only has a 5% chance of still being in office two years down the line when it's time to clear the mess up.

Scorched Earth?
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Fri 18 Jul 2008, 13:31, Reply)

PJM
With this in mind, it surprises me that they don't go for the massive tax hike option.

No government is going to significantly put taxes up if they stand a chance of being re-elected; there's not much that puts voters off more, I'm sure. However, if you know that you're not going to be re-elected, and that your legacy will be as the government that oversaw such a disastrous decline in economic stability, would you not want to try to do something about rectifying it?
( Moey, Fri 18 Jul 2008, 13:41, Reply)

Well...
Taxation has a significant effect on how much disposable income is in the economy. While Darling and Brown have been gifted a £15bn windfall in fuel duty receipts - remeber, they calculated their receipts based upon oil $50 per barrel, you could argue that taxes have increased significantly in real terms.

Remember that roughly 70% of the price of a litre of petrol is tax.

Then we have the abolition of the 10% tax rate, Car Tax rates being substantially hiked next year and also the fact that our energy bills are going to return higher tax receipts too.

The proportion of earnings being taxed has actually risen by 50% since 1997.

If taxes are visibly hiked further, the flow of money into the economy will slow to a trickle. This has the knock on effect of preventing people from spending, which means a dramatic fall in VAT receipts and Corporation Tax receipts from businesses who's products remain on the shelves.
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Fri 18 Jul 2008, 13:48, Reply)

*looks at Kaol*
hmmm, titanium umbrella....
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 18 Jul 2008, 13:50, Reply)

Ah, but
we need a replacement for Trident.

Why?

Because The French have a nuclear deterrant (this was the justification given by Blair in a press conference last year).
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Fri 18 Jul 2008, 13:52, Reply)

I did feel my thinking
was about as full of holes as the 10% tax rate.

It's certainly true that you slow the economy further by increasing taxes, and the fact that the ever declining value of the pound is going nowhere towards helping drive any growth.

It seems as though borrowing more is the chosen approach, but does this not just devalue the currency further, and deflect the issue for the next government to deal with? Or is that the point.
( Moey, Fri 18 Jul 2008, 13:55, Reply)

Anger
Sorry folks! I don't want to make your lunchtime b3ta experience a teeth gnashing exercise in frustration.

I'm merely trying to provoke a little healthy debate on Off Topic...

Besides, you're all very intelligent and articulate folk and I enjoy reading your opinions.

edit - ancrenne if you want to march on parliament, you have my full support ;-)
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Fri 18 Jul 2008, 14:02, Reply)

I'd go for Vipros' (d) as well...
I'd streamline councils (there are so many fat cat councillors out there doing bugger all, and earning a vast wad for it).

I'd cut down on all these "thinktanks" that gobble money for 3 years, and then come up with the conclusions that "being stabbed hurts", and "if you sit very still all day whilst consuming 7000 calories, you might put on a teensy weensy bit of weight".

I would tell MPs in no uncertain terms that whilst old people in the UK can't afford to eat and heat their homes, or that vital workers such as nurses can't even begin to afford to buy their own homes, that the "John Lewis List" is off-limits, and that as MPs, they ought to set an example by tightening their belts and doing without a pay rise for one year.

And above all, if some little oik is caught burgling a house and is tackled by the homeowner, I would never let the little shit spend thousands of tax-payer's pounds on prosecuting said home-owner for GBH. People are getting out of control, because bystanders are too scared of being sued if they intervene in a situation.
(The Empress it seems you CAN polish a turd!, Fri 18 Jul 2008, 14:04, Reply)

so depressing
PJM, I usually think you're a little harsh on my fellow Fifer Gordon Brown, but in this case I just can't understanding the thinking behind it.

"Yeah, we'll borrow our way out of trouble. It's not like I'll be in power in 10 years time."

*shakes head*
( djtrialprice, Fri 18 Jul 2008, 14:08, Reply)

I've just been made redundant because of this fucking mess we're in...
You hear on the news about it happening to 'other' people but never expect it to happen to you. Its a truely horrible feeling.

I'm too upset and angry to think of anything else to say.
(Errorist, Fri 18 Jul 2008, 14:12, Reply)

^Errorist
On a serious note, I'm really sorry to hear that. You're right it's pretty fucking galling when something like that happens to you.

I hope you find yourself back in employment soon.

Good luck.
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Fri 18 Jul 2008, 14:20, Reply)

Thanks PJM
Galling is definitely the right word, I'm sure things will come good. Just getting over the initial shock is pretty crap!
(Errorist, Fri 18 Jul 2008, 14:24, Reply)

Thanks Al
Incidently... you're an environmental consultant too aren't you?

Hows business at your firm?
(Errorist, Fri 18 Jul 2008, 14:26, Reply)

We just slowed down to a complete halt!
and never pick up again. Think it was because we were so small. Seems like there's a bit of work out there though, so fingers crossed!
(Errorist, Fri 18 Jul 2008, 14:34, Reply)

Who was it who said?
Was it Winston Churchill who said

"Trying to tax a country into prosperity is like standing in a bucket and trying to get your self into the air by pulling on the handle"

I agree with PJM on this one .... this looks like a spiteful scorched earth policy in the making!

Time to take to the streets and march on Downing street yet?

Can I be the first volunteer to horsewhip the clunking broon bottler down the Mall and all the way back to Scotland?
( RadG Drinking Mojitos in the sun, Fri 18 Jul 2008, 15:00, Reply)

Just Wait
For Operation Iranian Freedom to kick off. We'll get dragged in to it as the current one-eyed fiscal incompetent hasn't got the nerve to tell Dubya to piss off. Cue every fundy in the world getting even more tetchy, a few more coffins arriving at Brize Norton (and of course the Coroner's powers to criticise the MOD/Govt are in the process of being wiped out) (but they don't matter because it's just poor people and fick non voters wot joins the services), and a few more squillion down the toilet. Hope we have negotiaited a better deal on looting the place this time.

Hang on, the Argies are getting a bit frisky again territorially speaking.... naah, that one's been done before.

Zimbabwe? Nope, who wants to save poor people with limited resources. No good headlines there.

Never mind, I'm sure the Olympics will be lovely.








(I hereby nominate this as the first "Cynical Friday")
(osok Rebel without a clue, Fri 18 Jul 2008, 17:37, Reply)

Sold down the bloody river.
If the country were a household then we'd be cutting back on meals out, beer, fags and other superfluous non essentials.

As it is they're still going ahead with the Olympics, paying scummers to rut and doss about and running 'Days' celebrating being a gypsy/ladyboy/'insert ethnic minority here'.

This particular household will be taking the T.V, kids ipod's and the Wife's jewelery down to ca$hconvertors in the none too distant future.
(SpunkyMcSpunkbubble Diddled your nubbin on, Fri 18 Jul 2008, 20:46, Reply)

@Osok
You have a point... Iran really couldn't be doing more to upset the Americans if it tried. That worries me, someone like Shrub who's on his way out anyway might plunge us all into another invasion that no-one really wants, except ultra right wing Americans keen to corner the third largest oil and gas reserves in the world.

From what I can gather, the American neo-cons have lost out to the moderates and the softly softly approach is most likely. However, if it does kick off then we'll be seeing $300 a barrel in the not too distant future.

As for Brown, he'll "feel our pain", yet will quietly rake in the fuel duty claiming that oil prices aren't his problem, knowing he's found a source of funding to clear his debts and pay for yet more boneheaded folly.

Never mind, we have Al Gore burning more fuel in a trip across the Atlantic than my Alfa Romeo will in 120 years, bearing the message "Use less oil".
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Sat 19 Jul 2008, 0:23, Reply)

Broon "Feeling Pain"
Is a wonderful thought, especially if red hot pokers up the jacksie are involved.

However someone who has never held a 'real' job, claims for his light bulbs on expenses and wouldn't be able to negotiate his way around a supermarket without a minder, knows how the 'ordinary hard-working' family is doing, and has the sheer gall to advise us to use up the leftovers as if this was the root of all our economical worries.......sheesh.

How blatantly out of touch with reality can anyone get? Oh I forgot, he's a politician. 'Nuff said.

Roll on the 'Marie Antoinette' solution.

And stand the oil futures traders up against the nearest wall while you're at it. Almost single-handedly (OK, the Middle East is a smidge noisy at the moment) responsible for the panicky rise in oil prices - when oil went over $100 it was a staged buy so the trader could make his insignificant mark on history...

What do you have to do to organise a proper lynch-mob these days?
(osok Rebel without a clue, Sat 19 Jul 2008, 10:29, Reply)