Fair enough.
The most important musical movement since jazz in the 20s though.
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Wed 13 Oct 2010, 23:31, 2 replies, latest was 15 years ago)

Fact or opinion?
not being argumental, just interested
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Wed 13 Oct 2010, 23:32, Reply)

I would say fact. Look at the impact across literature, music, visual art and cinema.
Not to mention the vast range of styles across hip hop as a whole, and the peculiarities of the genre- record collecting as an art in itself and the reconstruction of said records into discrete consumer items.

It's a fascinating semiotic language all of its own that only came into being through a reaction to the constraints imposed by poverty.
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Wed 13 Oct 2010, 23:36, Reply)

So do you see it as a social commentary?

( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Wed 13 Oct 2010, 23:39, Reply)

a social commentary
or a dictator of social mores amongst a section of society is the question
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 13 Oct 2010, 23:42, Reply)

No more a dictator of social mores than any other popular genre.

(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Wed 13 Oct 2010, 23:47, Reply)

Really?
You don't think rap has had a profound impact on how some parts of society have evolved recently? Indeed is not so much shaped (though in the past it was) as shaping now
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 13 Oct 2010, 23:55, Reply)

No more so than, say, Ska on Skinhead culture in the 70s/80s, Rock n' Roll in the 50s etc.
And I think it's cowardly and ignorant in the extreme to blame societal ills on musical styles.
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Wed 13 Oct 2010, 23:59, Reply)

I'm hardly blaming all
of society's ills on it! I would rather think it cowardly not to see the bad side of music, however much I love it. You may with excellent reason adore your proper rap/hiphop, but don't tell me that the majority of stuff fetishised by people who listen to it is comprised of excellent tunes. It's not a separate genre.
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 14 Oct 2010, 0:06, Reply)

But that's it though.
Just because twats listen to certain music, it's not the music that's to blame for them being twats.

I blame entrenched poverty etc.
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Thu 14 Oct 2010, 0:10, Reply)

The topic
was whether the forms of rap/hiphop listened to, has a negative effect. You don't think so, I do, we'll have to agree to disagree
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 14 Oct 2010, 0:12, Reply)

I'll ask a Sociologist.
I know a couple of Doctors of Sociology.
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Thu 14 Oct 2010, 0:14, Reply)

It's a really interesting thing to look at though
incorporates a lot of topics. I could be biased of course since most generic rap/hiphop is horrifically and persistently sexist and homophobic
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 14 Oct 2010, 0:15, Reply)

No it isn't, a minority of it is. You just haven't investigated enough.

(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Thu 14 Oct 2010, 0:20, Reply)

Missing the point I'm making here
which is yeah sure if I investigated it properly it isn't. However whatever I hear of it blaring from chavvy houses, mobile phones and occasionally the radio IS. You know- the stuff people are actually listening to
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 14 Oct 2010, 0:22, Reply)

Yes, just as punk is.
There is a world of difference between quality hip hop and the pop shit like 50 Cent and Eminem.

And of course it is social commentary- all worthwhile art serves that function.
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Wed 13 Oct 2010, 23:42, Reply)

I don't think it has made an impact on cinema
to a massive extent. You have some biographic films about the genre, but it so very little conducive to mood or atmosphere that you rarely hear it used to any effect
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 13 Oct 2010, 23:43, Reply)

I don't mean as a source genre, I mean the concept of sampling and the mingling of genres. You can see it in Fincher, Scorsese and most modern directors.

(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Wed 13 Oct 2010, 23:46, Reply)

I definitely don't feel
that that technique is somehow the preserve of hiphop, might as well say Shakespeare's mixing of sources is the original sampling
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 13 Oct 2010, 23:54, Reply)

There speaks a man who has never witnessed the cinematic genius of Breakdance 2: Electric Boogaloo

( broadsword, Wed 13 Oct 2010, 23:54, Reply)

Excuse me Dougie Fresh....

( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Wed 13 Oct 2010, 23:56, Reply)

You're forgetting skiffle.

( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Wed 13 Oct 2010, 23:35, Reply)

Does your chewing gum lose it's flavour on the bedpost over night Dav?

( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Wed 13 Oct 2010, 23:37, Reply)

All the fucking time, Jeff.

( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Thu 14 Oct 2010, 0:04, Reply)

It's a cunt isn't it
*Goes away to invent bed-post proof chewing gum*
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Thu 14 Oct 2010, 0:15, Reply)