After a number of false starts
I eventually staggered out of University in November 2002 with a 2:1 in English with Philosophy. How I managed to scrape a 2:1, I have absolutely no idea as my academic talent is nil. I found out very, very quickly that having an academic bachelors is meaningless unless you're pursuing a career in teaching or the academic research world. It also didn't take long to realise that my parents, family and all my teachers were wrong. Having a degree does not guarantee you a job. Unless you have a degree that directly qualifies you for a role, you're unemployable. Even if you do, there are so many graduates these days that the competition is ferocious.

I applied for jobs. I got turned down. Job after job would come back saying I was too inexperienced. So I applied for jobs with no experience requirement. They rejected me on the basis of being over-qualified. In the end I was forced to start temping. No worries, I thought, it's only temporary. I'll get a bit of experience and then everything will be fine.

I temped for two years. To be fair, I did get a fair bit of experience in a few things that did eventually help smooth my way into my current job but even if I'd have known that in 2004, I doubt it would have been much comfort. The lack of regular, reliable payslips inevitably pushed me further and further into debt. In the end I was forced into getting a permanent job, *any* permanent job, in order to guarantee a monthly income.

So, at the age of 24, I started work at a bowling alley. Everyone else I worked with were teenagers. Some of my bosses were younger than me. Still, it was only temporary, right? It's easier to get a job when you're already employed, isn't it? I did that job for a year whilst trying to get something else. It nearly killed me.

At 25, I got a job at a local Law college. it seemed like a good break, it was a Publishing job and so seemed reasonably relevant to my degree. I could go far with this one, I thought. Sure, the pay was shit, sure my boss was four years younger than me, but that won't matter. I'll be fine. After six months I got told that I wouldn't be coming back to work the next day. Kicked out at the end of my probation. Well, I kind of hit rock bottom. I was 25, still lived at home and despite being in the working world for three years now, I was only slipping further into debt. I'd work for a while, pay off some debt, then head back into unemployment and the debt would mount back up again.

The next job wasn't much better. It was an "IT" job (I ran reports off into Excel and made the coffee) and again, only lasted six months. The reason being that the job role they'd planned for me to fill didn't turn up. 26, back into unemployment, still at my mum's house and now getting seriously concerned at my level of debt.

The next job was better and lasted for eight months. I still ended up being forced out but it led directly to the job I'm in now. I've been here two years and, ironically, I'm now as safe as it's reasonable to expect in the current climate.

The general point of this post is to say that if you're unsure of whether or not you want to go to University, read the above. If you're going to go, then for God's sake do something that'll actually have a positive impact on your life. Study a Science, study Maths, study fucking Photography if you want. Just don't plump for an English degree because of the vague notion of some 40-somethings who remember a time when a degree, any degree ("it shows you're capable of working and sticking with something!"), was worth the paper it was printed on.

Sorry about the length and good luck to all of you who aren't as fortunate as I am.
( Kroney, Mon 6 Apr 2009, 19:51, 13 replies)

I agree
although I did a vocational degree I still found it very hard to get a job in that area.

I then spent ten years in mind numbing retail jobs before re-training as a teacher.

I love my job and I'm glad I did it, but I have to say there is a lot to be said for leaving school at sixteen and training as a plumber.
( Mrs Entity is in hiding., Mon 6 Apr 2009, 20:17, closed)

^
This. I would fucking love to know how a pipe works instead of calling my local 18 year old plumber who charges me £96 fucking quid to tighten a bolt or a seal or whatever makes water come out of the fucking tap when I don't want it to. Curse my degree in Classics from Brasenose!
(powervator and NONE SHALL PASS, Mon 6 Apr 2009, 20:53, closed)

^ THIS.
The amount of grief I got after I took my finals for "selling yourself short" from my dad (which is why he still isn't speaking to me) for applying for jobs that didn't require experience or pay more than £20k - a BA doesn't guarantee you a top-flight job, one of my friends has a near-perfect First and she's temping because she can't get a job even with experience! Stupid old people. And don't even get me started on graduate schemes - to my dad they were some kind of miracle thing to train you up and make you a millionaire inside a year.

As it is, I'm an admin bitch who speaks a bit of French.
( Maladicta, Mon 6 Apr 2009, 21:31, closed)

@Maladicta
and I'm an IT guy with a passing knowledge of Descartes and fricatives.
( Kroney, Mon 6 Apr 2009, 21:34, closed)

Very well put
Education in this country has been fucked royally by the socialists ever since the sixties.

Part of education, or indeed most things in life, is for your good to further your learning. Part of it is how you measure up to other people.

"Everyone's good at something" has been bastardised to the hilt into "No one's allowed to be bad at anything."

Prizes for all.

Doesn't really help you trying to get in to college when everyone got an A, does it? Doesn't help get in to Uni when everyone's got 30 points.

And then there's the poor lecturers who want bright kids they can make a difference to, but get so bored with teaching them up to the level they should already know.

And what the fuck is an 'entrance exam' for? "Oh, they're very nice, they'll fit in well". Bollocks. It should be "They're pretty smart, they'll make my uni look good and we can push them until they're the one of the next best of the best researchers"

Certainly doesn't help you get a job. Doesn't help the employer choose between CVs.

All the way through college and uni, lecturers would look at us with pity, geniunely upset at the things we didn't understand or couldn't be taught until next year.

There was a time Uni was a place the top 10% of ACADEMIC types went to become excellent. If you weren't academic, you did something else and became excellent at that.

The tests meant something, the curriculum pushed you.

And the country happily paid for it all - it could afford to - uni wasn't part of "general education" where 90% of the country went.

Pretty soon you'll need a "degree" to become a hairdresser, and then somehow pay off a twenty grand loan for your fees on minimum wage.

Sorry, rant over. That one's been bubbling up for a few years...
(MrOli is ugly, but in the morning you will be sober, Mon 6 Apr 2009, 21:54, closed)

Agree with you (almost) entirely
But was it really the socialists who killed off the value of the degree?

Granted, the "Everyone's good at something" becoming "everyone gets a prize for turning up" is a typical syndrome of extreme political correctness, but it was the Tories who decided to turn the polytechnics into universities (which - I'm too young to remember them - but strikes me as a fucking stupid idea: what exactly was wrong with an institution that taught people a useful skill that would make them eligible for a trade?)

And then it was Tony "Mrs Thatcher II" Blair who decided that we needed to get 50% of our populace into university - which obviously goes back to your point about it becoming "general education."
(LongJohnBaldry, Mon 6 Apr 2009, 22:18, closed)

It doesn't necessarily follow
I got a 2:1 in Mediaeval Studies and managed to get myself into a graduate programme with a big consultancy and (eventually) into my current role as a head of development. It took some doing, but the main trick is to work out how to sell yourself - work out how to make those "soft skills" stand out - yes, you did philosophy, well that could be very relevant in today's financial world - talk about ethics in interviews.

You're an IT guy, so look at how well your linguistics prepares you for computational linguistics.

I think this is what's lacking; not necessarily the opportunities, but what you make of them.

When presented with CVs (I have a pile on my desk at the moment, Java or PHP developers apply here) I tend only to look at the degree as a secondary thing and what the person's actually been doing. If they have an academic degree, that actually makes them stand out from the bland "computer sciences at bangalore university" I see so much of these days.

It's an attitude thing as much as anything that kills off good old academic degrees; people seem to have started to assume around 10 years ago that you needed to do business studies (before that economics) or computer sciences or something to make the grade; if you try to compete against people with that sort of background on their terms, you'll fail, so turn things round and compete on your terms.

I know it sounds patronising, but it's true; make English and Philosophy a talking point in an interview and you'll go a lot further.

I'm just pleased I was able to prove the bearded cunt of a careers advisor wrong who told me I had no chance of getting a job in IT...

And stop moaning about how unfortunate you are...
(poobah, Mon 6 Apr 2009, 22:28, closed)

I am in concurrence!
After picking up my BA in English and American Studies in 2002, I've managed to wangle my up to being senior copyeditor* for a multi-national entertainment brand. With arts degrees, there's not as obvious a career arc as in some sciences - you could work in anything, but you have no useful specialism.

It's hard graft, but you can definitely turn your three years of shitting about reading books into a job!

* I'm well aware this is probably littered with errors now I've said this. But I can't be doing reading it back... That's for the day job.
(Lapin, Tue 7 Apr 2009, 0:13, closed)

I am also in concurrence!
Having a BA and then an MA in History (specifically medieval) got me a job in a communications consultancy. I found during my (happily brief) job hunting period that it's about skills - so I made the most of what History taught me and saw how processes of analysis can be applied to the working world.

Let's start a club.
(Land of Green Ginger It's dreamy weather, Tue 7 Apr 2009, 12:03, closed)

Small point
I'm not moaning about anything, neither am I unemployed so don't really need the careers advice, ta.
( Kroney, Tue 7 Apr 2009, 1:09, closed)

I also had a spell of unemployment post Uni
The trick is to teach yourself your missing skills in order to fill the gap between a Bachelor's degree and the skills to do a job in the real world. However, this works best if you're looking out for employment in a narrow field of employment - otherwise, you may overwhelm yourself trying to become eligible for several careers at once.
( mistaspakkaman and the inedible shifting caterpillars, Mon 6 Apr 2009, 22:29, closed)

Oh fuck yes
I absolutely agree.

I went to university to study computer science. I chose to do so because I am quite good with computers, and because I come from the kind of background where university attendance is presumed to be the natural thing to do.

I soon found out that the things they taught on the course were barely relevant to actually *getting a job in IT*. Not only that, I also realised that although I was good with computers, I was not all that madly in love with the idea of spending my working days writing code, as it's boring if it's not a personal project.

After leaving university, however, I duly applied for jobs in IT - only to be told that everyone wanted two years' commercial experience - and since I had been at university, I did not have that.

The irony of it all was that, during my gap year, I did actually have a job in IT: working for Barclays, doing their website for them. I left that job in order to go to university. If I had not been to university, then I would have had 3½ years' experience in the commercial sector, and would have been a lot richer.

The lesson I learned is: university is only really worth going to if you're studying for a qualification which is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY in order to do what you want to do. For example, to practise as a doctor or a lawyer etc, you are required to have obtained the necessary qualifications.

In the general field of work, however, it's far better to build yourself up over the course of three or four years while actually working - than to spend that time at university obtaining a degree which is usually only vaguely related to what you want to do. Of course there are exceptions, but this is what I have generally observed.

And that was very well put, by the way: "the vague notion of some 40-somethings who remember a time when a degree, any degree ('it shows you're capable of working and sticking with something!'), was worth the paper it was printed on." My father was like that.
(EuroSong I love horse meat: best of all the animals, Tue 7 Apr 2009, 10:52, closed)

You are me - or at least your Uni experience is the same as mine ...
Had the very same thing - good with computers therefore do a CompSci degree, only to realise it's very academic and you spend 90% or your time hacking code which appeals to some, but not me.

10 years later I'm now a Design Engineer, solving problems and designing systems - worked in both Comms & Defence - softies work for me, and being able to read code is useful, but I use absolutey fuck all of my degree.
(Teiresias, Wed 8 Apr 2009, 11:56, closed)