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# Why? He didn't cause that much damage.
And to be honest if they where using remote desktops on machines that had sensitive information on then they deserve everything they get.
(Peter_G, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:08, archived)
# I'm sorry, no.
I just don't buy into hacking at all. It is pathetic and childish.

EDIT: Also, he didn't do that much damage? Well he did some damage. So if I turn up at your house and kick a door in and snoop around your house it is ok because the door isn't that expensive say, that's ok?
(I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:10, archived)
# you wouldn't get 70 years though would you :p
(gtfomh, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:16, archived)
# You wouldn't get tried in a court that belongs to the householder
held in the cellar or something.
(_Felix 's school of dance and occult sciences, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:18, archived)
# Well no, that is true,
however, breaking into his house wouldn't compromise national security would it. But that is beside the point. Complain about the length of the sentence, by all means, on a humanitarian standpoint, whatever, but the law is the law, and if you break it, you deserve to be prosecuted. Simple as that.
(I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:19, archived)
# it's not at all that simple as anyone who has followed this at all would realise
what he did barely even constituted hacking
(gtfomh, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:20, archived)
# He was basically a script kiddie
Ran a script he found to search for systems with no security and then RDPed to them. Hardly hacking.
(I helped save b3ta! Maximinimus you stick around I'll make it worth your while, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:22, archived)
# there seems to be a meme of people getting dinged for just walking into wide open systems that should be fucking secure
what if he was an ACTUAL OMG TERIST

fucking idiots don't learn, they've been this shite for years.
(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 15:12, archived)
# I don't claim to know the whole ins and outs of the case,
however, he has said himself that he hacked in looking for classified UFO documents and such. Seems to me that it is unarguable that he hacked the system.

I'm not sure what you mean by "barely constituted hacking"
(I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:23, archived)
# well the guy admitted it naively without a lawyer.
what I mean is, it was not a serious professional hack. The security was woeful and the guy probably couldn't even believe how easy it was to get in. what I mean is, if you go up to someone's house, try the door handle, and it's unlocked, you are wrong to enter, but it's not breaking and entering if you do.
(gtfomh, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:27, archived)
# Actually it is, amusingly enough.
If the door isn't closed, though, it isn't.
(_Felix 's school of dance and occult sciences, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:29, archived)
# As I said below, no, it isn't breaking and entering.
However, it is still trespassing, which is a crime.

And if the door is open and you go in and rob the house, insurance payout or not, if you are caught you will still be charged and convicted of theft.

You can try and moralise it as much as you like, it is still a criminal act.
(I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:30, archived)
# again I'm not saying he wasnt wrong
but you shouldn't get convicted of theft if you don't fucking steal anything...
(gtfomh, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:34, archived)
# No, of course you shouldn't.
However, he isn't being charged with theft is he. I am just trying to draw a parallel.
(I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:39, archived)
# illegal and legal
doesn't always equate wrong and right.
(Peter_G, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:35, archived)
# It doesn't even always equate to illegal and legal, either
if we're talking about different countries.
(_Felix 's school of dance and occult sciences, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:38, archived)
# Maybe not.
However, illegal does equate with against the law. And if you are going to commit a crime, you can't complain about being punished for breaking that law.
(I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:56, archived)
# Well, yes you can.
You can in fact complain about it. Say your crime is producing modern art in nazi Germany, and you get put in prison for it, complaining is entirely reasonable. I guess you mean you're silly not to expect to be punished, rather than that you shouldn't complain about being punished.
(_Felix 's school of dance and occult sciences, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 15:07, archived)
# The systems broken into weren't even password protected or had default passwords
(I helped save b3ta! Maximinimus you stick around I'll make it worth your while, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:28, archived)
# That is may as well be,
but that doesn't mean that it is acceptable or right to go inside.
(I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:31, archived)
# Yes, but we are talking the difference between
charges for misuse of computers and charges for terrorism, which is what he's going to be charged with :S He deserves to be punished but what he's facing is more than a bit severe.
(I helped save b3ta! Maximinimus you stick around I'll make it worth your while, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:34, archived)
# As I said before,
by all means complain about the severity of his punishment if you like, however, he is being tried for terroroism or whatever under American Law. If American law states what he did is terrorism, then he should be punished in accordance with the statute. Sadly, it is as simple as that. The odds of him actually getting sentenced to 70 years is, I would venture to say, highly unlikely.
(I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:41, archived)
# And you think American law should apply in England?
(Peter_G, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:42, archived)
# It's a bit hard to say where he did the crime, really.
(_Felix 's school of dance and occult sciences, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:44, archived)
# I'm not saying it necessarily should, no.
However, the crime he commited, although he was sat in England, was for all intents and purposes commited in America.
(I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:45, archived)
# no, as you said before
"He deserves everything he gets. "
although I suspect this is internet bravado
(gtfomh, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:43, archived)
# And I stick by that.
I said that you can argue about the severity of the punishment all you like. I however, am not.
(I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:47, archived)
# then you are either lying
or are lacking in qualities I consider necessary to be thought of as human. If someone on a tour of the houses of parliament thinks it would be funny to sit on the seats, and the pm gets embarrassed and the guy gets 20years behind bars would you argue that the guy knew it was wrong and deserves everything he gets? It seems either you don't value your life very much, or simply don't care about anyone else one bit. There's simply no getting around it; this guy is being well and truly fucked over. He's already lost getting on for a decade of his life to this bullshit as it is.
(gtfomh, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:56, archived)
# Maybe.
As I said before, I don't know the entire story of what he did, and no-one will till it goes to court really. He may well be being fucked over, yes, or he may have done a lot more than people so far know.

It probably is too harsh and unfair of me to say that he deserves 70 years, you're right.
(I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 15:02, archived)
# That would depend
if my house's total gdp was 14 trillion dollars
(Peter_G, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:17, archived)
# actually the correct analogy would be someone simply turning the doorhandle and wandering in
if you dont lock your house, just try claiming on insurance for anything stolen
(gtfomh, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:19, archived)
# Well sort of,
that isn't breaking and entering, no. It is however trespassing and still illegal.
(I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:27, archived)
# Oh ok.
So it is more of a crime to steal £100 from someone who only has £300 in their bank account than it is to steal £1 million from someone who has tens of millions in their bank account? Fucking bullshit.
(I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:20, archived)
# No, but
it is more of a crime to steal $100 from someone who only has $300 in their bank account than to steal $800,000 from someone who has $14,000,000,000,000 in their bank account.
(Peter_G, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:29, archived)
# Seriously?
(I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:32, archived)
# yes
100 of £300 = 33.33%
800,000 of $14,000,000,000,000 = 0.0000057142857142857145%
(Peter_G, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:40, archived)
# So it is simply based on a percentage?
I am sorry, but you must have kept your moral compass far too near your collection of delusion magnets.
(I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:43, archived)
# I think you must have kept your moral compass,
far too near to your bad-common-sense-magnets! Ha! two can play at this analogy.
(Peter_G, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:45, archived)
# It's exactly as if Gary McKinnon had very long arms
and reached across the atlantic and pulled a general's pants down.
(_Felix 's school of dance and occult sciences, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:49, archived)
# Funny kind of system.
So how does stealing $1 from somebody with $3 shape up against stealing $1 from somebody with $17,500,000?
(_Felix 's school of dance and occult sciences, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:36, archived)
# Apparently he caused $800,000 worth of damage.
I'd be interested to know what kind of damage this was. Maybe he hacked the computers so hard they exploded, or maybe there's a way to measure embarrassment in dollars now.
(_Felix 's school of dance and occult sciences, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:13, archived)
# Going on IT contractors salaries in the early 00s,
That would probably be resetting the password on 80 machines.
(I helped save b3ta! Maximinimus you stick around I'll make it worth your while, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:14, archived)
# Pfft, I see.
(_Felix 's school of dance and occult sciences, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:16, archived)
# Plenty of ways.
He obviously breached the security system, I don't know how, but that could have required rebuilding or whatever. He could have deleted files and such from the system which would then have to be re-entered and such.
(I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:15, archived)
# could have but didnt
it's likely just how much they suddenly realised they had to spend to actually stop people just wandering in to their systems, the fucktards.
(gtfomh, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:17, archived)
# I'm sorry, I really don't get this.
So because it was possible for someone to hack into the system, they are at fault solely and he shouldn't be blamed? If he noticed this issue with their system and informed them, it would be a very different thing. He however exploited it for his own purposes.
(I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:28, archived)
# From things I have read he did
They ignored him so he carried on. Not that I'm saying it's right.
(I helped save b3ta! Maximinimus you stick around I'll make it worth your while, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:31, archived)
# you are reading too much into what I'm saying
I'm not saying the guy didn't do anything wrong, merely that he is being completely fucked over, and this is all way out of proportion to what he actually did. The americans were indeed at fault too as it should not be possible to do what this guy did. This is probably why they are so pissed off about it. It's pretty embarrassing for them. Also, stop with the bullshit please: exploited it for his own purposes was curious and had a look.
(gtfomh, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:32, archived)
# Gazzed to save the thread from becoming way too collosal :)
(I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Fri 31 Jul 2009, 14:49, archived)