No, I wouldn't call her a fascist.
There's a big difference as I already said between late transitioning women and people who have managed to go through puberty in their affirmed gender.
Being a trans woman isn't a magical advantage over cis women. You've still got to be good. Transitioning is hard on the body. It takes a lot of recovery time.
Anyway, we don't need hypotheticals. Let's watch the Olympics and see how the New Zealand weigh lifter does in her rounds. From memory, she's not the best in her class, despite being trans.
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Invisible Wizard - 13th Level Scrote, Mon 28 Jun 2021, 21:22,
Reply)
“Anti trans sentiment tends to come from right leaning sources as part of a wider political agenda.”
“ No, I wouldn't call her a fascist.”
Trans women are women.
Your capacity for doublethink is impressive.
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Prufrock Lucifer, son of the morning!, Mon 28 Jun 2021, 21:35,
Reply)
Calling someone fascist is a very different thing to saying
- that anti trans rhetoric tends to be from right wing folks.
I certainly don't call Boris Johnson or Rees-Mogg fascists, but they are undeniably right wing.
Besides, when I wrote the bit about right wing agenda being anti trans, I was summarising Jessie Gender's video essay as requested, not trying to state some absolute fact.
My own opinion is that we should do our best to avoid being hurtful - making crap jokes about trans sportswomen hurts real people - and leave the international sports policy to the committees. I'm happy to say I support trans sports women, but I get it that this is a nuanced thing.
But making fun of trans folk? Nah, fuck off. That's for shits.
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Invisible Wizard - 13th Level Scrote, Mon 28 Jun 2021, 21:47,
Reply)
We’ve been laughing at gender bending for years.
From dramatic irony drag in Shakespeare, to Lemon and Curtis in Some Like it Hot, The Two Ronnies et al in the seventies, French and Saunders as two old gammons, Kathy Burke’s Perry, The League of Gentlemen, Lily Savage on Blankety Blank to mention a few.
It’s going to take a long time to break all those funny bones. But sticks and stones could do it.
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Prufrock Lucifer, son of the morning!, Mon 28 Jun 2021, 22:14,
Reply)
At or with?
Also there's a subtle difference between being right wing and fascist. I'm not sure if you made that argument in bad faith or if you're really that thick. I realise that's a bit rich coming from me.
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brb man-child cuck corporate supplicant fuck, Mon 28 Jun 2021, 22:34,
Reply)
At, with, whatever.
Ultimately this has nothing to do with ‘right leaning’ agendas and conspiracies, as much as the trans lobby bleat that it does. It comes down to cold hard facts of science, specifically biology.
For a long time we have accepted that climate change dialogue must follow the science. More recently we have accepted that governments must follow the science in their responses to Covid. Yet in the trans debate, science can get the fuck out. Cancel all who disagree.
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Prufrock Lucifer, son of the morning!, Mon 28 Jun 2021, 22:51,
Reply)
You've missed the major point in Jessie's video -
Early transitioning for trans girls through hormone treatments avoids creating a male physique during puberty. This too is science.
The sports discussion is part of a wider issue that trans people are not being treated the way they want. This is itself part of a wider issue that conservative groups tend to deny the rights of non-cis, non-hetero people.
One doesn't need to claim there's a conspiracy when there are actual legislative processes going on to deny those rights. It's not a conspiracy, it's an open fact.
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Invisible Wizard - 13th Level Scrote, Tue 29 Jun 2021, 8:01,
Reply)
You've missed the most major point of childhood development.
They are, by nature, extremely whimsical and capricious. The idea that an 8 year old can give informed consent to be given puberty blockers is crazy. These drugs irreversibly change a person for life. If they're not allowed tattoos before they're 18, why should they be allowed puberty blockers?
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Prufrock Lucifer, son of the morning!, Tue 29 Jun 2021, 13:40,
Reply)
Prufrock is spot on
…and I don’t often agree with him.
Add into that that regressive parents can and do enforce gender norms, and an 8 year old (or younger) being told that their interests are “not appropriate for boys” who also hears that it’s the case that some boys are really girls, might reach the understanding that a boy who likes feminine stuff is a girl.
Genuine progressive thought says this;
“a girl is a child with a female body and any personality”
the current extreme form of trans activism adopted by Mermaids and the like says
“A girl is a child with a female personality and any body”
And you can see them as being just different phrasing’s of the same thing, if not for the fact that Mermaids and trans activism in general follows it up with “oh, but the body then has to match the personality to avoid distress in later life, so hormones and a pathway to surgery it is”
(, Tue 29 Jun 2021, 14:08, Reply)
Here's one of your right-wingers
(Possibly NSFW due to text sweariness)
www.glaad.org/gap/germaine-greer
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An Egg ,D, Mon 28 Jun 2021, 23:10,
Reply)
Those cunts will be burning books next.
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Prufrock Lucifer, son of the morning!, Mon 28 Jun 2021, 23:14,
Reply)
Avoid being hurtful?
OK then, what about crapping on the hard-earned achievements of top-level women competitors - how is that not hurtful to the women? I'm not a fan of women's efforts being wiped out by a mediocre ex-man - why don't women get to have a say in this, since they are the ones who will see their hard work erased
(, Tue 29 Jun 2021, 6:11, Reply)
Gavin Hubbard already bumped a woman from her spot on the NZ team
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An Egg ,D, Tue 29 Jun 2021, 1:42,
Reply)
Being a *male* is an advantage over female people
Your argument “you still have to be good” misses the point.
The issue with trans women in female sport isn’t “trans women will win all the gold medals”, much as that’s a convenient little strawman with which to pretend that the opposition view has no merit.
The point is twofold.
Firstly - and the point most obvious but least relevant; almost every elite male athlete would immediately become the world’s best if measures against female achievement, and would still retain most of that advantage after hormone treatment. These are your “gold medal” trans women, but the most unlikely to actually happen
Secondly, and most importantly; an *average to good* male athlete if they transition, still retains the same percentage of male advantage as elite athletes do.
In practice, as with Laurel Hubbard, this results in - whatever the placing, whether second or 10th or 100th - a mediocre male athlete supplanting an exceptional female.
That’s evidence based and obvious yo everyone - I daresay that five years ago nobody here would’ve thought such a statement was controversial.
I’m amazed that so few people see the most glaring moral/ethical issue though; all sport should be about striving to be the best we can be. Where is the integrity in sport if 98% of competitors are striving to improve, be the best they can, the strongest, the fittest, the fastest, while a small group of people of the sex with an advantage are attempting to *mitigate* their advantage just enough to make it all look fair?
(, Tue 29 Jun 2021, 9:46, Reply)