*****The following posts contains many many words*****
RAAAAAAH the seemingly propaganda like tone of this news article has just riled me so much i thought i'd come here and see if it rang the same bells with others.
now, i don't know about you b3tans that have experience in this area, but i've been smoking grass for rapidly approaching ten years and have so far killed........oh, no fucking people, not even come close.
i can't even put into words why it fucks me off so much that someone, who is clearly fucking mental, would blame a drug which turns even the biggest men into softarse pacifists, for a psychotic murderous attack on his girlfriend.
don't get me wrong, I totally agree that grass can get you extremely paranoid, but it takes an utter psycho (someone with propblems besides the drug) to do what this guy did.
(, Thu 16 Oct 2008, 13:11, Reply)
clearly he has issues beyond cannabis
getting a lob-on was one of them
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awallafashagba Da da da da da Dah dah, Thu 16 Oct 2008, 13:18,
Reply)
haha
but yes, clearly issues besides the drug.
no doubt though, this case will be used as an example of why "drugs are bad m'kay" when it comes to the governments "drugs re-classification roulette".
(, Thu 16 Oct 2008, 13:20, Reply)
O RLY
well i had one bite of cannabis and drove a train into a school so there
"...now THAT'S sarcasm!"
/Homer blog
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grey kid is breakdancing to save a community centre, Thu 16 Oct 2008, 13:21,
Reply)
"As a police officer of 28 years...
... I can say the worst thing legislators did was to reduce the classification of cannabis to Class C and we are now starting to see the long-term issues of this drug."
It was reduced classification, what, 2 year ago... this guy had been 'addicted' for 10 years!
But, Drugs are bad, kids.
Stick to taxed ones like booze and fags
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Joe Scaramanga with a G-double-O-D vibration, Thu 16 Oct 2008, 13:26,
Reply)
it makes my blood boil, truly.
it shoudn't, cos i no longer live in the UK, i live in Holland, which is wonderful.
just makes me angry that this'll get all the Daily heil/sun/anyone that actually listens to this sorta shit, up in arms about the dangers posed by weed.
(, Thu 16 Oct 2008, 13:28, Reply)
I remember when I told my lovely mum
that I smoked grass when i first went to uni (Don't anymore, just eat beer now).
And she said she was appalled. I said "What exactly do you know about smoking weed?"
"Well, it's illegal"
"And..."
"Well, it's obviously bad for you, or it wouldn't be illegal"
"And wherwe do you get your information about drugs from?"
"I know what I read in the papers and see on the news."
I rest my case... sorry mum
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Joe Scaramanga with a G-double-O-D vibration, Thu 16 Oct 2008, 13:32,
Reply)
totally, it's truly saddening the reasons people will give for believe in things.
luckily my mither and fither were both acid heads in the 70s so they're not too fussed by my consumption.
(, Thu 16 Oct 2008, 13:34, Reply)
According to the copper
if cannabis hadn't been downgraded, psychos like this wouldn't smoke it. Because if there's one thing you can say about paranoid psychos, it's that they respect arbitrarily decided legal classifications for narcotic substances. "Class B substances? I may be a knife wielding nutter, but you wouldn't catch me going near that stuff. It's Class C all the way for me..."
(, Thu 16 Oct 2008, 13:27, Reply)
^this^
the whole concept is fucking ludicrous.
I hate the idea though, that they actuallly wanna make the sentences longer and the fines bigger. "we are now starting to see the long-term issues of this drug" yeah, just imagine what it's like in holland, probably fucking horrible with all those hopped up weed heads everywhere.
oh shit, wait, society over here is actually still functioning, we're not surrounded by weed-crazed axe murderers on every corner... how strange.
i'm almost becoming nonsensical in my rage, i think i need a lie down.....and a spliff.
(, Thu 16 Oct 2008, 13:32, Reply)
This person was insane
I wouldn't blame it on the weed
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morrybyte made a subtle namechange at, Thu 16 Oct 2008, 13:31,
Reply)
Sorry,
but while I agree that the drug is mostly harmless it can bring to the surface latent mental problems.
The drug is not to blame alone but it probably does have something to do with it.
I have watched several friends mental states deteriorate due to smoking it non-stop over the course of 10 or so years. One was actually admitted to a mental care home, spent 3 years off weed recovering and actually returned to the guy I used to know...unfortunately he started to smoke it again and now years later recognises none of his old friends, talks to himself, is practically homeless on the streets of Belfast and is currently trying to perfect a mathmatical equation for angels.
Anyway, i'm not meaning to sway peole one way or the other. I think it all comes down to your state of mind and if you take it respobsibly...everything in moderation and all that
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Bamboo Steamer, Thu 16 Oct 2008, 13:56,
Reply)
It's well known to induce psychoses in the vulnerable
There's a wealth of evidence to prove that people with underlying mental health problems, especially schizophrenia will have their condition exacerbated by using marijuana.
In a lot of cases, the condition would never develop, but smoking a lot of weed will increase the chances significantly.
I used to smoke a LOT when I was younger, with my 'partner in crime'. He later went on to develop full blown paranoid Schizophrenia, was convinced his parents were trying to kill him, and ultimately ended up hanging himself a few years ago.
So the notion that weed is an entirely harmless drug and makes everyone into cuddly teddy bears is a complete fallacy.
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HoratioFellatio Taking the the out of psychotherapist, Thu 16 Oct 2008, 13:36,
Reply)
Fair enough
But even taking into account the different levels of usage, the number of people seriously damaged by alcohol abuse is a hell of a lot greater than those damaged by cannabis.
Plus it's very hard to distinguish cause and effect in these things - many people with mental disorders find that cannabis helps to calm them, and I don't think there have been any really decent double-blind studies because of the ethical issues. Maybe those people who go crazy on weed would have gone more crazy without it and were self-medicating. Without extensive (and unbiased) research, it's very hard to be sure.
Final point: as you say, it's mostly about exascerbating existing conditions. Whether drug use can *induce* schizophrenia is a different question from whether it makes it worse (or better).
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flatfrog Staring vacantly into space, Thu 16 Oct 2008, 13:44,
Reply)
The obvious point here
is that pumping you body full of psychotropic narcotics is never going to do you any good.
And as for the alcohol/weed argument - alcohol only causes lasting damage after years of abuse, and the effects are more gradual, more visible and more easily reversible.
Yes, people can get pissed up and get violent, but they wake up with a hangover and they're back to normal. Bringing on full blown paranoid schizophrenia isn't something a couple of paracetamol can cure.
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HoratioFellatio Taking the the out of psychotherapist, Thu 16 Oct 2008, 13:51,
Reply)
While mental illness should not be encouraged,
"alcohol only causes lasting damage after years of abuse"
try arguing that point with the medics in A&E departments
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no_funny_name heart of gold, nerves of steel, knob of butter, Thu 16 Oct 2008, 13:56,
Reply)
Whereas one puff of a joint and you're a paranoid nutjob?
Obviously no mind-altering substance is good for you. But in terms of damage to *others*, weed is way down the list.
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flatfrog Staring vacantly into space, Thu 16 Oct 2008, 14:41,
Reply)
also this
but then again, it would not be too wise for someone with "underlining mental health problems" to drink too much booze.
Edit: Ja, what FF said
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no_funny_name heart of gold, nerves of steel, knob of butter, Thu 16 Oct 2008, 13:47,
Reply)
fair do's, i concede that it can do some messed up and horrible stuff to people with the wrong mental disposition in the first place, and my apologies if my post seemed a little insensitive, what happened to your friend sounds like a horrible thing.
but compare any of the figures relating to this drug to alcohol and cigarettes and it rapidly starts to look like the tiniest of worries.
it bugs me that there is still such a mssive worry being generated by the government over this drug when they couldn't care less (i know this is an understatement, but for the sake of brevity i'm simplifying) about one that is already killing hundreds of thousands a year, and is no doubt ( i can't be fucked to go google the figures, as i said, i'm a stoner) responsible for the massive mental degradation of all of it's addicts, testimony to which is abundance of piss-covered tramps in town centres who before hitting the bottle would never have considered such a lack of personal care.
all in all, it's the hypocrisy that gets me, that and the fact that i'm made to feel like a psychotic leper if i discuss this with people who have no understanding of the other side of the argument.
(, Thu 16 Oct 2008, 13:49, Reply)
I have exactly the same story
to the point i'm inclined to ask if you live in sussex, as that's so close to the person I knew.
But then there's a difference between exacerbating and cause - someone troubled enough to do a frenzied knife attack very probably had issues in the first place, as the hundreds of people i've met since who have also taken the drug at varying points in the lives for various periods, haven't stabbed me or anyone else up lately - they're all pretty normal, insofar as any of us are.
However, as the chap above me mentions, there's never been a sufficient study to show that a condition wouldn't have developed without it, so it's very hard to say, even if it does greaten existing conditions. Without empirical evidence, that's a bit like saying cheeseburgers make your hair fall out because lots of bald men eat cheeseburgers.
Personally, I hate the stuff. Never had any joy out of it, just vomiting.
(, Thu 16 Oct 2008, 13:55, Reply)
also this.
Just ask any nurse in a psych ward.
Interestingly, certain types of grass are "worse" - notably the more trippy kinds (not surprisingly), i.e. super skunk etc. And some kinds can actually help - something to do with the constituent chemicals.
It can induce psychotic episodes in those who wouldn't have got them if they didn't smoke it.
(, Thu 16 Oct 2008, 14:30, Reply)
Yes, this
I smoked for a few years, and the best stuff I ever had was this really mild grass. It was really pleasurable and I didn't get any of the horrible side effects I got with super-strength skunk.
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krang, Thu 16 Oct 2008, 17:22,
Reply)
Hang on a minute...
What's your point?
It's clearly a combination of pot and having an unstable mind that fucked him up. Therefore if it wasn't for smoking dope he might not have gone so deep into mental wrongness.
It affects people in different ways, and without doubt can cause serious psychosis. My ex is a clinical pharmacist who works on a mental ward, and she says half the problems are related to cannabis.
I've been smoking on and off for 14 years, but recently i've found it makes me anxious and gives me bad nightmares, so i don't often bother anymore.
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mookay immune to icons since, Thu 16 Oct 2008, 15:20,
Reply)
That's the crazy thing about any drug though
it can effect people differently, some people turn into psychos after a few drinks of whiskey, let alone smoking grass. But you are right, it's the person that's the issue really, not the drug.
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abstraction is somewhere out there..., Thu 16 Oct 2008, 17:04,
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