Bless my cotton socks, I'm in the news!
I made this!
This is me - I'm Brassington - giving evidence to the Scottish Parliament yesterday. Hurrah!
(I know that, strictly, I didn't make this. But it's the closest I'll ever get to being able to check that box legitimately, so ner.)
EDIT: The Bill as it stands at the moment is available here; the written evidence I submitted in the spring is available here.
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Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 12:07,
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made me want to kill myself
well done
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fudboy high ideals and crazy dreams, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 12:12,
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I wanted to kill the bloke from the Scottish Council on Human Bioethics.
Humanely, of course.
Ta!
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Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 12:14,
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We'll see.
The Bill is going to have to be revised, and I have a suspicion that it won't pass... but I'd like to think so...
(I had half a suspicion they'd hear me speak for a few seconds, then interrupt with the words, "But you're English..."
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Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 12:18,
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they aren't going to revise The Bill
it had long enough on our screens. Let it go.
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Dr Drink, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 12:21,
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I had a fantastic idea for introducing calm and level headed suicide to society the other day
it tackled religious opposition, risk assessment, air tight guarantee that the person had weighed up the options properly, waiting and review period to ensure it wasn't a rash idea and the best bit, organised funerals with you there and all your mates and a nice happy farewell.
but like so many brilliant ideas I'd forgotten the key to it by the time I went to write it down :(
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HappyToast Groat froth, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 12:27,
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Phwoargh!
I like the way you're groping a single, invisible nork with the tried-and-trusted "twisty swivel" technique.
(, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 12:19, Reply)
I hadn't thought of it like that.
I thought I was casting a complicated spell.
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Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 12:22,
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interesting.
I havent watched the whole thing but what if someone wanted to die and they werent terminally ill? Is it an erosion of dignity for a doctor to deny them an assisted death?
(, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 12:22, Reply)
Bluntly - I don't see why a person has to be terminally ill.
I don't see why they have to be ill at all. I think that it'd be perfectly legitimate for a doctor not to help - and I think that that applies in all cases - but I think that if a person wants to die, and if he wants help, and if someone is willing to help, then (broadly) it should be permissible to help.
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Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 12:26,
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and if they're of sound mind, don't want crazies killing themselves.
It would save Police time too investigating suicides/possible murders that otherwise would have happened with a written note of consent and Doctors approval.
(, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 12:28, Reply)
Yeah.
There'd have to be all kinds of conditions met, but the broad claim stands, I think. Note, too, that merely being mentally ill doesn't render you incapable.
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Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 12:32,
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Case in point: Alzheimers. In that case if the person can't make the decision, then it's down to the family.
On the other hand, someone with Chronic Depression might feel, at their lowest of lows, that their life is worthless and want to die. The danger is that it'd be too easy for them to do so, even if suicidal tendencies is merely a symptom, and 90% of the time they're perfectly happy.
It's alot more complicated than just writing a bill saying "yes, you can assist in suicides"
(, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 12:39, Reply)
That's not quite right.
With incompetent adults, there is no proxy. The law states that medics have to act according to the patient's best interests; and the patient's desires may help determine best interests. Consulting the family might help determine the patient's desires.
But this Bill is about voluntary assistance, and the picture you're painting concerns non-voluntary death. That may or may not be acceptable in some cases, but it's a different question.
As for the suicidal - well, the Bill does include a cooling-off period, and requires assessment that the request is valid. The Bill would serve to permit assistance - not to mandate it. And that seems correct.
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Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 12:49,
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I'm in favour of euthinasia etc.
I do worry about people taking that route unnecessarily, so hopefully this bill would take a lot of precautions against that, (Im listening to it now, I'm a bit of a geek about select committees love listening to them)
Glad something its got to this level of discussion, its a stupid situation currently. I know a retired doctor who has admitted to helping terminaly ill patients in pain along their way. I think my grandad should have had that option in the end. Its ridiculous that it does happen, but those who involved are at risk of prosecution, and those that want that option in most cases dont.
I do think there should be a line though, I'm not sure whether some one with a viable life ahead of them should be aided? My other grandad was a doctor, he suffered a number of heart attacks and ended up have a major stroke. He refused treatments knowing he'd get pneumonia (something he'd always said was the best way to go) In a way he took that option there was no way of stopping him, and its something I really respect. But given that he did have a viable life ahead of him if he'd taken treatment I'm not sure if it was a case of a doctor coming in and aiding him, whether that would possibly be beyond the remit of a law I'd like to see?
edit- really interesting this, will watch it all. A lot of sense being spoken especially by your good self.
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Jorvic, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 14:21,
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Thanks for the final line!
As for the rest - I just can't help but to think that if a person decides that they don't want to be alive any more, and there's no reason to suppose that that's not a genuine sentiment, then assistance isn't so big a deal morally speaking. I don't see what a viable future adds to things - it is, after all, your own future...
(For sure, there may be times when we would prefer that someone stay alive, but I don't really see how it'd be acceptable to enforce that.)
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Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 14:50,
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Not sure.
I think it's reasonably common among ethicists - but the opposite view isn't exactly rare either.
I think that there's a similar split in the debate among medics, but I don't have any evidence beyond anecdote: I've met some medics who support assisted suicide but not euthanasia, some who support both, some who support euthanasia but not assisted suicide, and some who're opposed to both.
Within each of those groups, there're medics (and ethicists) who have better and worse arguments at their disposal.
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Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 12:44,
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yay!
Finally, an Industry we can compete in!
Take that Switzerland!
(, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 12:26, Reply)
Good job!
Lucky no-one brought up incest :)
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Wet-chinned bag shanker Cannot parse Wogan, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 12:36,
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Tony Benn
Tony Benn had a constituent approach him about euthanasia and Tony talked to him about the Swiss clinic. Man refused to consider as he was frightened of plane crashes and had never flown. What a way to die.
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MaxineBasset Betty Basset Bombs are Better, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 12:47,
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Get you!
How brilliant. Were you nervous? I would have been.
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Herb Alpert's Taxi Driver I have very beautiful lips, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 12:48,
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Naaaah.
I treated it as a seminar. I had a position to argue, and I argued it. Seen like that, there was no reason to worry.
The only difference from the day job, seen that way, was that I had to be quite a lot more smartly dressed.
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Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 12:51,
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and very smart you look to!
Even when I know there is nothing to worry about I have an annoying physical reaction and shake like a leaf.
Well done Enzy!
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Herb Alpert's Taxi Driver I have very beautiful lips, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 13:18,
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Tony Benn
Tony Benn had a guy approach him about euthanasia and Tony talked to him about the Swiss clinic. Man refused to consider as he was frightened of plane crashes and had never flown. What a way to die.
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MaxineBasset Betty Basset Bombs are Better, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 12:48,
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Sweet!
It's interesting, I'll be watching the rest while doing my washing :-D
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Hellzapoppin, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 12:59,
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Ha!
The baldy chap got pwned over 'dignity' issues by that long haired hippy looking chap ;-)
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Hellzapoppin, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 13:30,
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Tony Benn
Tony Benn had a guy approach him about euthanasia and Tony talked to him about the Swiss clinic. Man refused to consider as he was frightened of plane crashes and had never flown. What a way to die.
(, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 13:16, Reply)
Ummm...
Second reply up....what the frog jizz is going on?
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Beejay Proper old bastard, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 13:23,
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Tony Benn
Tony Benn had a guy approach him about euthanasia and Tony talked to him about the Swiss clinic. Man refused to consider as he was frightened of plane crashes and had never flown. What a way to die.
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Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 13:27,
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Oh right!
Missed that first time round, I now understand.
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Beejay Proper old bastard, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 13:31,
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Mr Benn
Mr Benn had a guy approach him about dressing-up and Tony talked to him about the Kiss clinic. Man refused to consider as he was frightened of snakes on a plane and had never flown. What a way to die?
(, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 13:37, Reply)
Tony Benn
My name is Tony Benn and I had a guy approach me about Euthanasia. It was fantastic. He sounded like Barnaby Bear. He told me he didn't like it. One time, he wouldn't go to Switzerland. I went to Switzerland once, but someone crashed and burned my plane. I didn't like it.
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The Great Architect is still waiting for his account to be deleted on, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 14:00,
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this is quite possibly my favourite text meme
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Paster of Muppets is an incredible screen name, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 16:58,
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good points well made enzyme
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Rebel biscuit stercore sumus et nos esse novimus, Wed 15 Sep 2010, 14:18,
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