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This is a normal post The thing is competition doesn't really work the same way in consumer banking like it does elsewhere.
For instance supermarkets. If I don't like Tesco one week I can go to Sainsbury's or Morrisons the next, or the co-op or anywhere else, I can go to a different shop every week if I want. But once you've got an account with Barclays you can't just go and do your banking at Lloyds. You can close your account and open one elsewhere but what a hassle, you wouldn't just do it on a whim or to try something else for a bit. You're kind of held captive by the bureaucracy.

And is any other bank any different?
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 15:03, Reply)
This is a normal post ummm, yes it does
you don't need to close an account with Barclays to open an account with another bank, if you want to do your banking at Lloyds then go and open an account there.

You can open an account with every single bank if you want to, they can't and won't stop you
 (Ol' Ginger Bastard a role model for the children, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 15:11, Reply)
This is a normal post well they can stop me because I don't have any photo ID,
but it's still not the same is it, I don't have to open an account at all to go to a high street shop and buy something. And then if I want to actually use my money I'd have to transfer it from one to the other, which means dealing with the bank the money is in at the time.

Plus most people pay their bills by standing order, for convenience. You'd have to drop that if you wanted to pay out of a different bank every month. Same for your wages, unless you get paid in cash.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 15:17, Reply)
This is a normal post Barclays can't stop you opening an account with Lloyds because you don't have photo ID
why on earth would you think that would be the case?

Of course if you want to use a bank you have to have an account with them, how the hell would it work otherwise? You're saying that essentially you won't open another account because you can't be bothered, well, that is your fault, nobody else's.

In fact, you'll find that if you open an account with another bank, and want to move your DD's and standing orders (do they even still exist?) then the new bank will do it all for you.

You really don't know what you are talking about here, do you?
 (Ol' Ginger Bastard a role model for the children, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 15:25, Reply)
This is a normal post You need ID to open a bank account. I think that would be the case because I have opened a bank account before.
I also think that would be the case because my bank has told me that I need ID even to do certain things with the account I've already got. I got told this after I was asked for ID one time I tried to pay a cheque in.

Yes, ok, I can't be bothered. Because it's a faff on. It means going into a branch and filling out forms and stuff (or do they do it over the phone these days? It's a long time since I opened a bank account.) This is why it's not the same as competition between shops, because I don't need to feel particularly bothered to go into whichever shop I happen to feel like at the time. Going into any shop is absolutely NO more effort than going into the same one I went into last time.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 15:32, Reply)
This is a normal post so basically
you are moaning and whinging about something you know next to nothing about.

Of course you need ID to open a bank account, if you didn't, money laundering would be a piece of piss.

TABBY! SHE IS DOING IT AGAIN!
 (Ol' Ginger Bastard a role model for the children, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 15:36, Reply)
This is a normal post I'm not moaning or whinging,
I'm just pointing out that competition isn't quite the same in consumer banking because you have to open an account.

And here is you angrily agreeing with me, saying "OF COURSE THAT'S TRUE, STUPID"
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 15:39, Reply)
This is a normal post and how is this the fault of Barclays?
you are not 'held captive' by beauracracy. You are held captive by your own laziness.
 (Ol' Ginger Bastard a role model for the children, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 15:52, Reply)
This is a normal post I'm not blaming Barclays or anybody else.
It's an inherent property of how banks work. But I'm beginning to wonder if you work for them or something.

Call me lazy if you like. Call most people lazy if you like. Most people don't chop and change banks on a regular basis and it's not because they think the customer experience is so great. Shops have even started introducing rewards cards and store cards (every time I shop in an Arcadia group shop they want me to open an account with them) precisely because they want their customers to be tied to them in exactly the same way.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 16:02, Reply)
This is a normal post I would like to see tighter regulation of the banking system, and improvements across the retail banking sector
but that won't happen when people are witlessly harping on about 'moral responsibilities' and 'the system' instead of focusing on the failure of Governments to grow some balls and regulate the industry properly, which is THE ONLY WAY ANYTHING WILL CHANGE. Cameron doesn't want to do this, because when his political career is over, he'll get a nice few board positions where he can pick up a couple of hundred grand a year for doing an afternoons work.

He's quite happy for people to bang on about 'moral failure' etc., because he can join in, and agree, look like he's on the consumers side, yet still do nothing.

It's a smokescreen, and the stupid, gullible, ill-informed public is actually perpetuating the current status quo
 (Ol' Ginger Bastard a role model for the children, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 16:12, Reply)
This is a normal post where the hell did this come from?
it's like a crossed line. it's like the end of that argument from the other day fell through a wormhole.

I'm having terrible difficulty with my lifestyle.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 16:15, Reply)
This is a normal post and as for loyalty cards and schemes keeping people 'tied to' a particular store
nobody is 'tied', you can shop where you want. But if you do 'open an account' with Arcadia or any other, there are some free benefits that you can get. It remains entirely your choice. You get something free, if you choose, or nothing. You don't lose anything. It is a no strings benefit that you can choose to partake in. How can you have a problem with that?
 (Ol' Ginger Bastard a role model for the children, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 16:22, Reply)
This is a normal post ...and we're back on track
They psychologically tie people, that's what loyalty is, that's why they're called loyalty cards. They do it because it works. Obviously having a Topshop card doesn't stop me going wherever, and not having a Topshop card doesn't stop me shopping at Topshop. That's about as close to the banking business model they can get. They're exploiting human psychology to retain customers. I'm not making a moral judgment on this by the way.

With banks obviously it is different. I can't open an account with Barclays and then arrange an overdraft with Lloyds. I can't do anything in Barclays without an account with Barclays. This isn't Barclay's fault or necessarily a bad thing but if I had an account with Barclays and the customer service wasn't very good I'd want to know that the amount of effort it would take to move my account elsewhere, standing orders, direct debits, overdrafts, employer payments, credit cards and all, I'd want to know that doing so would actually make my life easier in the long run and not just a waste of my time. And how do I know that? If I usually shop at Sainsbury's and I'm disappointed by a steak slice one day, I can go into any Tesco and see if theirs is any better, with no commitment to keep going there.

Furthermore I could go to the cornershop instead, and here's another aspect of competition. I don't need to go to a supermarket at all, anything I can get in a supermarket I can get in any number of small, locally owned shops. Any bank that is any good, on the otherhand, is necessarily on quite a large scale, usually national or international.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 16:35, Reply)
This is a normal post OK, enough
you are talking a lot, but saying nothing
 (Ol' Ginger Bastard a role model for the children, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 16:47, Reply)
This is a normal post Have you got some kind of mental cold?
You seem to have a blocked brain. My sympathies. But it's no pleasure for me either, talking to a brick wall. Let me put it more bluntly, in a last-ditched attempt to get through.

Competition amongst retail banks alone isn't sufficient to encourage an emphasis on customer service because the intrinsic time and effort overhead of transferring an account outweighs the expected benefits of doing so. Banks aren't going to be helpful to customers just for helpfulness's sake (sadly), they only do things that are in their own financial interests. Therefore banks must be regulated.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 16:57, Reply)
This is a normal post But the regulation that you are talking about, switching accounts, IS ALREADY IN PLACE
The Financial Services Authority (FSA) will take over all retail banking conduct regulation for deposit taking and payment services in November 2009.

Currently, the Banking Code Standards Board (BCSB) monitors and enforces voluntary Banking Codes which govern banks’ day to day relationships with their customers.

From November 2009, these arrangements will be replaced by new FSA rules which all banks, building societies and credit unions must follow.

Notable changes for consumers will include the requirement to provide a prompt and efficient service to help customers switch accounts. This would apply more widely than the commitments in the banking codes, for example to cash ISAs, where the FSA has seen delays in the past. So when it comes to switching, customers will be able to have their transfer completed promptly – no matter what type of account.

YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!
 (Ol' Ginger Bastard a role model for the children, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 17:05, Reply)
This is a normal post So you don't think there should be more regulation of retail banks?
Because current regulation is sufficient, such that nobody is upset with customer service?
Is that what you're telling me?
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 17:11, Reply)
This is a normal post Or are you telling me,
I don't know what I'm talking about because I came to the same conclusion the FSA did, namely that retail banks have to be regulated to ensure adequate levels of customer service, because competition alone isn't enough to guarantee it?
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 17:15, Reply)
This is a normal post I'm telling you that you don't know what you are talking about
because the regulation regarding switching of accounts has already been in place FOR OVER 3 YEARS
 (Ol' Ginger Bastard a role model for the children, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 17:32, Reply)
This is a normal post Well that's good,
although it's not just that I think they should regulate. Switching accounts is still something you would have to actively do, it's fundamentally NOT the same thing as just going into a different shop than usual for your loaf of bread, still struggling to understand why you can't see that. But all the same.

You know what. I might actually go and put this to the test, just to see how quick and easy it really is these days. I'm not especially happy with my bank, so I don't imagine I've got much to lose by it. It will mean getting a passport first, though.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 17:37, Reply)
This is a normal post I will spell it out for you:
Banks have agreed to make the process of moving an account as straightforward as possible.

In addition, our rules say that if you want to move your account to another bank, both your old and new bank must provide a prompt and efficient service.

How long will it take to move my current account to another bank?
Under banking industry guidance, switching a current account to another bank should be a simple process and the new account should be operational within ten working days of your application being approved. Sometimes getting other people to update their records with the details of your new account can take a bit longer. Your new bank will do much of the work for you.

Once your application for a new account is approved, if you wish to transfer direct debits and standing orders to the new bank account, your new bank should ask your old bank for details of them within three working days.

Your old bank should then give your new bank this information within three working days from receiving the request.

The banks will agree a date to transfer the balance – but should not charge you for making the transfer.

Your new account should be ready for use within ten working days of your application being approved.
 (Ol' Ginger Bastard a role model for the children, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 17:37, Reply)
This is a normal post TEN DAYS?
If I want to go to Morrisons instead of Sainsbury's I don't have to wait ten days.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 17:41, Reply)
This is a normal post You are not comparing like for like though, are you?
If you think you are, then you are a total moron.
 (Ol' Ginger Bastard a role model for the children, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 17:44, Reply)
This is a normal post No, I'm not.
No, I don't think I am.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I SAID IN THE FIRST PLACE.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 17:46, Reply)
This is a normal post oh god
SHUT UP!!

edit: /stamps feet
 (I helped save b3ta! wideeye slightly pickled, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 17:50, Reply)
This is a normal post NO!!!!
YOU SHUT UP!!!!
 (I helped save b3ta! Dawn Of The Bread $$$$ E-THUG 4 LIFE - THAT'S HOW I SCROLL $$$$, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 18:08, Reply)
This is a normal post Ssssh...
Back away quietly... He's clearly got some long-repressed anger about it and is determined to bring it to this conversation whether relevant or not.
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 16:35, Reply)
This is a normal post *whispers*
I think he may just be allergic to stupid people.
 (I helped save b3ta! Tab Hunter Make this useless process end and so, begin again, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 18:28, Reply)
This is a normal post I think what MGT was meaning...
was that if you were to move *all* of your banking to another bank it's a right royal pain in the arse. All your standing orders, all your direct debits etc. have to be moved over. Forget one? It may bounce, and it *may* harm your credit rating if it does.

Of course you can open an account with another bank whenever you like (depending on credit rating) but if you want to move your business to that bank (e.g. all the products you use) it's a bureaucratic nightmare.

Edit: damn, beaten to the reply
 (I helped save b3ta! wideeye slightly pickled, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 15:20, Reply)
This is a normal post Forget one? that's your own damn fault!
as for the rest, see above.

Plus, opening an account does not depend on credit rating. All banks must offer a basic account regardless of your credit rating. It is law.
 (Ol' Ginger Bastard a role model for the children, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 15:27, Reply)
This is a normal post I think you're straying from the point here,
nobody is saying moving your business elsewhere is impossible. But it is enough of a hassle not to be worth doing unless there was some compelling reason to do so.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 15:34, Reply)
This is a normal post It has been made incredibly easy
What would be your proposed 'no-hassle' solution then?
 (Ol' Ginger Bastard a role model for the children, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 15:39, Reply)
This is a normal post I'm not proposing one,
it's impossible. I can't think of any possible system where you could open an account with Barclays (with no ID), make a deposit in Lloyds, and a withdrawal from Santander. That would be a nonense.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 15:42, Reply)
This is a normal post I don't worry so much about ME
forgetting one. I have wanted to change banks for ages because mine is incompetent, but I just KNOW they would mess it up and I'm not financially secure enough to juggle for a month or so while it is sorted out.
 (I helped save b3ta! TheSundaeLunch I'm a fucking shrub, alright?, Fri 6 Jul 2012, 15:40, Reply)