Books
We love books. Tell us about your favourite books and authors, and why they are so good. And while you're at it - having dined out for years on the time I threw Dan Brown out of a train window - tell us who to avoid.
( , Thu 5 Jan 2012, 13:40)
We love books. Tell us about your favourite books and authors, and why they are so good. And while you're at it - having dined out for years on the time I threw Dan Brown out of a train window - tell us who to avoid.
( , Thu 5 Jan 2012, 13:40)
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Mini militant
When I was little, I loved reading books and hated sexism. Actually, that's still the case; however, it's been a while since I defaced a library book from fury at its gender stereotyping.
I created a few unique special editions, but I remember the first one the best - not what the book was, but the fact that its main characters were a brother and sister. He was brave, strong, good at climbing trees and amateur sleuthing, and played the violin (which = cool, ok?). She was cowardly, weak, always worrying about getting her clothes dirty, frequently in need of help or protection, and played with dolls. I took tipp-ex and carefully went through it, swapping their names, every him/her, and every she/he.
Take that, patriarchy.
( , Sat 7 Jan 2012, 17:41, 24 replies)
When I was little, I loved reading books and hated sexism. Actually, that's still the case; however, it's been a while since I defaced a library book from fury at its gender stereotyping.
I created a few unique special editions, but I remember the first one the best - not what the book was, but the fact that its main characters were a brother and sister. He was brave, strong, good at climbing trees and amateur sleuthing, and played the violin (which = cool, ok?). She was cowardly, weak, always worrying about getting her clothes dirty, frequently in need of help or protection, and played with dolls. I took tipp-ex and carefully went through it, swapping their names, every him/her, and every she/he.
Take that, patriarchy.
( , Sat 7 Jan 2012, 17:41, 24 replies)
This is nothing new, the first gay and lesbian fiction adventure for kids was published in the 1970s
( , Sat 7 Jan 2012, 17:46, closed)
( , Sat 7 Jan 2012, 17:46, closed)
Interestingly heated responses there
First, I should point out that I had VERY neat handwriting, and until one looked closely, it wasn't obvious that anything in the text had been altered. That was the whole point.
Second, changing arbitrary labels - character names, in this case - doesn't change the semantic or syntactic meaning of the sentences in which they are embedded, and so theoretically shouldn't make a decently-written story any less compelling or enjoyable*. However, it can highlight the weaknesses in bad writing.
(* Yes, of course there are examples in literature where names are chosen to match particular character traits or are plot-relevant. These weren't.)
( , Sat 7 Jan 2012, 21:29, closed)
First, I should point out that I had VERY neat handwriting, and until one looked closely, it wasn't obvious that anything in the text had been altered. That was the whole point.
Second, changing arbitrary labels - character names, in this case - doesn't change the semantic or syntactic meaning of the sentences in which they are embedded, and so theoretically shouldn't make a decently-written story any less compelling or enjoyable*. However, it can highlight the weaknesses in bad writing.
(* Yes, of course there are examples in literature where names are chosen to match particular character traits or are plot-relevant. These weren't.)
( , Sat 7 Jan 2012, 21:29, closed)
So how would you react if someone edited your books and removed the elements they didn't like?
( , Sat 7 Jan 2012, 22:14, closed)
( , Sat 7 Jan 2012, 22:14, closed)
Not that I agree with what she did to library books
but nice displays of knee-jerk misogyny here, guys.
( , Sun 8 Jan 2012, 8:47, closed)
but nice displays of knee-jerk misogyny here, guys.
( , Sun 8 Jan 2012, 8:47, closed)
Misogyny
But I was having a go at Joe Orton. If it was anything apart from smug smart-arsery, which it is, it would be homophobia, which it's not.
( , Sun 8 Jan 2012, 11:07, closed)
But I was having a go at Joe Orton. If it was anything apart from smug smart-arsery, which it is, it would be homophobia, which it's not.
( , Sun 8 Jan 2012, 11:07, closed)
I'm going to be fair and balanced here and point out that everyone in this thread is coming across as a massive prick.
( , Sun 8 Jan 2012, 11:37, closed)
( , Sun 8 Jan 2012, 11:37, closed)
Or, more likely... wait for it... a REALLY SMALL PRICK!!!!!
(I'm implying they have small penises)
( , Sun 8 Jan 2012, 15:27, closed)
(I'm implying they have small penises)
( , Sun 8 Jan 2012, 15:27, closed)
By blatantly trying to get into her pants like this, you are technically committing sexual assault.
Misogynist! Rapist! Pinko! Commie! Terrorist!
( , Sun 8 Jan 2012, 15:52, closed)
Misogynist! Rapist! Pinko! Commie! Terrorist!
( , Sun 8 Jan 2012, 15:52, closed)
There aren't many other ways to describe the behaviour of someone who tries to get into your pants without your consent.
( , Mon 9 Jan 2012, 23:16, closed)
( , Mon 9 Jan 2012, 23:16, closed)
They tell me, don't feed the trolls, but...
The thing about consent is that you don't get to decide for another adult whether they give it or not. You appear to be assuming that not only am I incapable of granting or denying consenting on my own behalf, but that the only correct answer to (supposed) sexual advances from a man is no.
You didn't miss the bit where I explained that the original context is from the 1970s and I am no longer 8 years old?
( , Tue 10 Jan 2012, 13:12, closed)
The thing about consent is that you don't get to decide for another adult whether they give it or not. You appear to be assuming that not only am I incapable of granting or denying consenting on my own behalf, but that the only correct answer to (supposed) sexual advances from a man is no.
You didn't miss the bit where I explained that the original context is from the 1970s and I am no longer 8 years old?
( , Tue 10 Jan 2012, 13:12, closed)
I was assuming at least some of the comments were satirising message-board misogyny...
So, nobody on Bt3a has ever admitted, in a QOTW, to damaging someone else's (or public) property?
And the one that gets people worked up is a 7-8 year old girl in the 1970s?
I haven't taken my pen to a library book in 30 years, except to correct typos and factual errors, but I think what I did as a small child, and my motivations for doing it are quite funny in retrospect, hence sharing the story.
Be interested to know if the responses above are the ones you would give to your daughters if you found out they'd done something similar to some of the pink princess crap they get fed these days.
( , Sun 8 Jan 2012, 12:25, closed)
So, nobody on Bt3a has ever admitted, in a QOTW, to damaging someone else's (or public) property?
And the one that gets people worked up is a 7-8 year old girl in the 1970s?
I haven't taken my pen to a library book in 30 years, except to correct typos and factual errors, but I think what I did as a small child, and my motivations for doing it are quite funny in retrospect, hence sharing the story.
Be interested to know if the responses above are the ones you would give to your daughters if you found out they'd done something similar to some of the pink princess crap they get fed these days.
( , Sun 8 Jan 2012, 12:25, closed)
If I gave my daughter a library book
and she chose to deface it in protest, I would discuss the issues with her, then make her replace the book. It's the library's book, not yours.
Personally, I blame your parents.
( , Sun 8 Jan 2012, 22:04, closed)
and she chose to deface it in protest, I would discuss the issues with her, then make her replace the book. It's the library's book, not yours.
Personally, I blame your parents.
( , Sun 8 Jan 2012, 22:04, closed)
That sounds like a reasonable response. Hoepfully you wouldn't address your daughter as "you little shit" though.
( , Mon 9 Jan 2012, 12:53, closed)
It's great to have so many responses to my story
And it's interesting to compare them with other people's confessions of youthful (or less youthful) transgressions involving other people's property.
Changing some of the names in a book without altering the overall meaning (which, yes, of course, is BAD, mkay) is apparently perceived as worse than actually stealing books from a library, or pulling out pages. Or is it just the gender thing?
( , Mon 9 Jan 2012, 13:24, closed)
And it's interesting to compare them with other people's confessions of youthful (or less youthful) transgressions involving other people's property.
Changing some of the names in a book without altering the overall meaning (which, yes, of course, is BAD, mkay) is apparently perceived as worse than actually stealing books from a library, or pulling out pages. Or is it just the gender thing?
( , Mon 9 Jan 2012, 13:24, closed)
I think this may partly be a generational thing
Mrs G may well have done something similar in her day, although I'm not aware that she did.
What 'the kids today' don't realise is how sexist things were back then. This is decades before 'Billy Blue Hat', more 'Janet and John' I suspect, where Janet had a pinafore skirt and John had shorts. Women were vilified for wearing dungarees and DMs and for cutting their hair short, 'Miss World' was on our TV screens (as was the 'Black & White Minstrel Show'), girls weren't allowed to wear trousers to school etc etc.
It was the generation of women growing up then that got things changed and don't you forget it.
So, well done Turangal Leela for striking a blow for feminism - you may have created the book that changed some young girl's life.
( , Mon 9 Jan 2012, 13:53, closed)
Mrs G may well have done something similar in her day, although I'm not aware that she did.
What 'the kids today' don't realise is how sexist things were back then. This is decades before 'Billy Blue Hat', more 'Janet and John' I suspect, where Janet had a pinafore skirt and John had shorts. Women were vilified for wearing dungarees and DMs and for cutting their hair short, 'Miss World' was on our TV screens (as was the 'Black & White Minstrel Show'), girls weren't allowed to wear trousers to school etc etc.
It was the generation of women growing up then that got things changed and don't you forget it.
So, well done Turangal Leela for striking a blow for feminism - you may have created the book that changed some young girl's life.
( , Mon 9 Jan 2012, 13:53, closed)
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