Our board of directors
believe that it's more important to pay a 'decent' dividend to the shareholders than try to preserve jobs or coditions for the employees. They also believe in 'rewarding outstanding performance' by freezing pay for the majority and only giving a rise to 'top performers'.

Cunts.
(Che Grimsdale Best before:, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 13:36, 47 replies)

I dunno like
As a Plc, their primary responsibility is to the shareholders.
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 13:43, closed)

This is correct
Doesn't change the fact that capitalism is shit, though. And that share ownership is immoral.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 14:03, closed)

not necessarily,
as a shareholder in principle you have a say on these kinds of things.
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 14:17, closed)

Yes, a non-binding vote that no one bothers to turn up for
will really hold them to account.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 15:17, closed)

well turn up, then.
this is like saying it's immoral to be on the electoral role if there's a bad government and a lot of apathy.
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 16:22, closed)

Umm...
I don't own any shares, but have no moral objections to democracy (aside from the fact that it doesn't work).
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 16:45, closed)

I don't either,
but if morally-responsible and pro-active people did, they could be a force for good. That's all I'm saying.
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 16:53, closed)

This seems unlikely.
Pleasantly idealistic, though.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 17:12, closed)

It's seems unlikely the mgmgmt would propose an idea with some shallow appeal but absolutely no connection with reality.

( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 17:16, closed)

not saying it's likely to happen,
just that owning shares isn't immoral, it's what you do with them that counts.
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 17:28, closed)

Share ownership is parasitic.
Company profits should be divided amongst the workers.
Fat fucking chance of that, though.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 18:03, closed)

If you own shares in a company,
you can choose to do exactly that with your dividends, if you like. Ideologically I agree with you, but if it weren't for the investment raised by selling shares most of those jobs may well not have existed in the first place.
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 18:11, closed)

Yeah, it's a shitty system, but it's not going away anytime soon, so we may as well learn to make the best of it.
Pretty sure I started a similar argument on here before, with someone who traded in futures.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 20:21, closed)

My last employer (a multinational manufacturer) gave all permanent staff shares in the company.
At least, they did at their UK sites.

/two penn'orth
( The Mock TurtIe ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 18:13, closed)

this is also interesting
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 18:46, closed)

Bollocks. Absolute bollocks.
The overwhelming number of shares in the UK are held by pension funds and insurance companies. The 'fat cat' shareholders are a tiny and irrelevant minority.
If shareholder benefits are seen as an easy target, pensions get cut. Simple as that.
( da5id <YOUR SIG HERE>, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 18:13, closed)

And the financial organisations that run pension schemes and insurance are absolutely famous for living in penury and never awarding themselves absurd bonuses.

( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 18:15, closed)

Indeed. But the headline grabbing 'fat cats' are financially an irrelevance.
The problem is the system that allowed cheap unsecured loans to people who couldn't afford the repayments, then created a financial instrument to allow selling on the liability as a healthy-looking package, with an extra percentage at each trade. The regulatory changes to allow these instruments were the travesty, not the likes of Fred Goodwin who were really nothing but bookies getting millions whether they won or lost.
( da5id <YOUR SIG HERE>, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 18:21, closed)

this is worth watching
www.ted.com/talks/james_b_glattfelder_who_controls_the_world.html

more here:
www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0025995
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 18:26, closed)

That was interesting. Thanks.
The appearance of individually random behaviours by companies moving towards a complex system is the basis of most evolutionary systems.
Of course, it may just be the appearance of random behaviour, and actually controlled by Skynet...
...now where did I put that tinfoil?
( da5id <YOUR SIG HERE>, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 18:55, closed)

it's the ownership links that go round in a circle that intrigue me,
because nobody is ultimately in control of that at all, it's like some kind of "invisible emergent corporation" that doesn't legally exist but is there if you look for it.
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 19:00, closed)

I never said shareholders were fat cats.
Nor was I advocating a cut in dividends. I might object to the system, but I fully accept the necessity of living within it.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 20:18, closed)

lol commie povvo

( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 18:14, closed)

Oi! I'm a Chardonnay Socialist, thank you very much.

( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 20:16, closed)

Are you a bare-faced hypocrite as well?

( The Mock TurtIe ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 20:32, closed)

only chavs and yanks buy wine by the grape

( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 23:25, closed)

You?
A wine snob.

Who'da thunk it?
(Misery McUglywife an attention seeking sociopathic fuckstain., Sat 27 Apr 2013, 1:51, closed)

Here, have some of these grapes.
They're a bit sour, mind.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 13:46, closed)

sounds FISHY to me!

(TheManWithThePlan cussed your mum on, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 13:46, closed)

Why can't they be like all the other boards of directors
and reward the board of directors.
(the other guy not the one that gave you coochie warts, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 14:03, closed)

lol commie povvo

( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 14:43, closed)

That's my new sig sorted.

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 15:10, closed)

you should try working harder

( The Doveston haunted by the memory of his own amnesia, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 15:33, closed)

^
This
(boarders You won't catch me with my trousers, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 15:50, closed)

No
I'm going to work less hard in future.
(Che Grimsdale Best before:, Sat 27 Apr 2013, 13:30, closed)

This is called incentivising.
Verbing weirds language.
( Infidel , shit and wrong, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 15:54, closed)

*boink*

( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 16:46, closed)

This flood of verbed nouns is a curse on the mother tongue, and signals the end of respect......etc etc
(Brigadier an old boot sitting on a man's face - forever, Fri 26 Apr 2013, 19:26, closed)

I agree and I think you should consider
Newthreadising this belief. Maybe it could be contraversialised.
( edjogs Collared doves are shit., Fri 26 Apr 2013, 22:34, closed)

If you are willing to work for people
whom you regard as cunts it may be useful to examine
your own ethics as well as theirs.
( edjogs Collared doves are shit., Fri 26 Apr 2013, 22:46, closed)

And my ethics are fine thanks
Cunt.
(Che Grimsdale Best before:, Sat 27 Apr 2013, 13:28, closed)

No need to be rude, this is a polite website.

( edjogs Collared doves are shit., Sat 27 Apr 2013, 21:33, closed)

Wow
Didn't think this would create a stir.

So yes, I'm bitter toward to the company that has provided me with a decent living for around five of the past 15 years, being, as I am a victim of the latest round of redundancies. It's more a timing thing - I could have done with a couple more years. Still, shit happens.

My wider point is that many of the financial institutions in this country (including part of the one I work for) used to be mutuals: Halifax, Leeds Permanent, Trustee Savings Bank, Norwich Union, Commercial Union, Northern Rock, Abbey National etc. etc.

It was the big demutualisation movement that created a bunch of plcs out of national/local institutions that used to offer savings accounts and mortgages, and didn't have to provide profits to their shareholders.

One these companies became plcs, they either got bought up by bigger companies or merged together to make marketing more efficient. What then happened was that there was a relentless drive for more profitability to please those shareholders - pension funds/insurance companies/fund managers for the most part.

Easy to do when there's economic growth in the economy, but when things slow down because the bubbles have all burst in the economic bath, and all you can see is your shrivelled penis and ball bag, how can you produce enough profits to please your shareholders?

You can't, so you have to make cuts and people lose jobs. It's like having a teenage son on heroin - you can pay for his fix so that he doesn't steal from you, but if you lose your job, he's going to be down the pawn shop with your telly, or you're going to go hungry.

OK, rant over.
(Che Grimsdale Best before:, Sat 27 Apr 2013, 13:27, closed)

lol commie povvo

( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Sat 27 Apr 2013, 14:51, closed)

Would the mutuals have disappeared if they
had remained a competitive place to invest? I don't know the answer to this but I do know that people aren't saving in banks any more because of dreadful interest rates. So where are they investing? Property via buy to let is a boom market. How do you get in on this? Take a mortgage from the (non mutual) bank. So the banks have found a way to make far more profit from people's savings than they ever did on savings accounts. No surprise really. Banks were never about giving people a fair deal were they?
( edjogs Collared doves are shit., Sat 27 Apr 2013, 21:47, closed)

it's a very generous redundancy package though.
You'll be getting about 15 months pay as your payoff, which is about 20 months take-home pay, assuming you're a basic rate taxpayer. The first 30 grand is tax free as well.

Silver linings, innit?
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Sun 28 Apr 2013, 9:33, closed)

STOP DISSING THE WEALTH CREATORS AND GET BACK TO WORK SERF!

( stuj (^(^;;^)^) GO TEAM SPIDERS!(^(^;;^)^), Sun 28 Apr 2013, 7:53, closed)