Grammar nazis.
People who slavishly obey dictionaries cherish their over ordered sense of reality too much. Dictionary's were initially used to separate the upper class twit aristocracy from common speaking plebs, and when people still insist in doing so I get an irrational hatred of aspiring middle classes and their pretenses (symbols are always in flux... hating that means your ego hasn't come to terms with the conditions of life yet.)Shakespeare turned hundreds of nouns into verbs and they're not questioned, disliking new things is puritanical,and mostly just silly.
(speranza, Thu 31 Mar 2011, 19:26, 24 replies)

so did you intentionally fuck your grammar up?
Or did you not know you did?
(CactusZack Shaved his coin purse on, Thu 31 Mar 2011, 19:29, closed)

Has to be a joke. Very subtle.

(Valentine_Sprake immanentising the eschaton since 1983, Thu 31 Mar 2011, 19:31, closed)

Bad apostrophe....
Sneaking into words you don't belong in.
( vix0r was not Matthew on, Thu 31 Mar 2011, 19:31, closed)

did that end in a preposition?

(CactusZack Shaved his coin purse on, Thu 31 Mar 2011, 19:35, closed)

"...into words what you don't belong in"
is the correct way of saying it.
(Valentine_Sprake immanentising the eschaton since 1983, Thu 31 Mar 2011, 19:38, closed)

I sit corrected
As usual.
(CactusZack Shaved his coin purse on, Thu 31 Mar 2011, 19:50, closed)

It depends how far you take it.
I could be considered a bit of a "grammar Nazi" because I think that reducing the intelligibility of our language by making the words "too", "to", and "two" into the same word is wrong.
Verb all the nouns you wish to, and noun all the verbs -- heck, you can adverb them all too... But I take exception to reducing the effectiveness of a language by making unrelated words synonymous.
(Me, I'm not... in any way intoxicated, Thu 31 Mar 2011, 19:44, closed)

That's a pretty good summary actually.
If it adds to the richness of the language, I'm all for it, if it detracts from it, it pisses me off.

Fucked if I'm gonna spell check every little thinbg I write on B3ta or correct every misplaced apostrophe just to appease a few people who consider me lazy if I don't though. If I was writing something important, I would.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Thu 31 Mar 2011, 19:52, closed)

I do find misplaced apostrophes annoying.
But, usually, only when "deliberate". If your finger slipped, or you forgot the correct word in a storm of posting, then fair enough. If, on the other hand, you think that "its" and "it's" should be interchangeable than I disagree completely.
Concepts are much easier to explain, and understand, when a language is consistent and as complex as possible without requiring more than the first few years of life to "master".
(Me, I'm not... in any way intoxicated, Thu 31 Mar 2011, 20:01, closed)

I know the difference.
But I will often unthinkingly use the wrong one and not realise unless I am proofreading what I have written.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Thu 31 Mar 2011, 20:04, closed)

my justification
The QOTW is 'irrational hatreds.' I know my use of language is poor by most peoples definition of it...and I believe it's quite likely that constantly being corrected is what fostered my irrational hatred! That's probably also why I come up with elaborate rationalizations for my behavior, but deep down I do know that good people speak perfect rp and nothing ever changes. I'm not sure I understand the making unrelated words synonymous thing though, set has over 400 definitions but by context I nearly always know what it means...
(speranza, Thu 31 Mar 2011, 19:58, closed)

It's not about being "new"
It's about HOW and WHY the "new" additions to the language came about.

Yes, language evolves. But there's a difference between an intelligent, educated person turning a noun into a verb because he consciously realises that there's a gap in the language - and a dim fuckwit who simply doesn't KNOW how to speak English, and makes a mistake because he's thick - which is then absorbed, meme-fashion, among his chav friends.

I'm a grammar pedant. It's something I have thought a lot about over the years: why this is so. My conclusion is not that I despise poor English use per se - but I simply despise stupid people.

It's the same with people who say "0207" and "0208". There's nothing inherently evil about such things - just that they're indicative of a person who simply doesn't give a shit in life, and doesn't pay attention to the world around them and how it works.
(EuroSong I love horse meat: best of all the animals, Thu 31 Mar 2011, 19:59, closed)

Aye, there's the rub
I think you've helped me to a better understanding of my condition, it's not really a grammar thing for me, but rather I hate elitest snobbery. 'Stupid thick people' and 'chavs' are usually the source for most new language creation...listen to some hip hop or read some poetry (Emily Dickinson for instance)... rarely follows any syntactical rules but amazing nonetheless. Before the beatles nobody would have dared speak with a liverpool accent on tv... now accents are everywhere.

Necessary grammar it language syntax not meaning create order minds
sense thought pervade expression self words fun metaphor image... yes.
(speranza, Thu 31 Mar 2011, 20:20, closed)

Erm
Regarding accents: they have nothing to do with intelligence. You're right in that before the Beatles' time, broadcasters were elitist by only ever using RP accents. But the thing is, there's nothing wrong with different accents. And it's good that the views were relaxed.

Regarding poetry for example: you can be quite sure that any established poet employs extremely deliberate use of language. I am not familiar with the works of Emily Dickinson, but from what you say I take it that she uses non-standard English. Okay - but that's fine. The reason it's fine is because I am sure she DOES (or did?) know how to speak standard English, but made a deliberate decision not to do so, for the sake of artistic variety and interest.

This is completely different to when a stupid person simply does not care about correct English use - and when they make a mistake, they don't even know whether it's right or wrong!

You talk of "elitist snobbery". But you need to understand that there are two different things here. A BBC controller in the 1940s decreeing that the only correct variety of English is Received Pronounciation, and forbidding any accents, could well be considered an elitist snob. A person who is able to distinguish between a) intelligent people who care about their language, and b) those who don't - is not an elitist snob, but simply sees the world for what it is.
(EuroSong I love horse meat: best of all the animals, Thu 31 Mar 2011, 22:12, closed)

I would just like to apologise
about taking the piss a bit. Trouble was, the initial post was full of errors (by conventional standards) and therefore ripe for a piss-take. I write for a living and I'm forever correcting other people's writing. I don't really care how people speak, but I do care about the written language. Not that it's really important in the overall scheme of things. Anyway, you seem like a decent sort. Peace.
(Valentine_Sprake immanentising the eschaton since 1983, Fri 1 Apr 2011, 0:00, closed)

Quite right.
The area code for London is 01. This 020 nonsense is just not cricket.
( flake has nothing against your right leg, Thu 31 Mar 2011, 20:31, closed)

This gets my goat.
Especially those who insist that it's "020" followed by the 'actual' number. I don't care if the official line is that "020" is the London area code: all inner London numbers start with 0207 and all outer London numbers start with 0208, so the area code for inner London is 0207 and the code for outer London is 0208. Want to know roughly where a business is located? Look at the area code: it's what it's there for.

If you want to get arsey and technical about it, then arguably {London} = 020, where {London} contains {Inner London} and {Outer London} and values of 0207 and 0208 are attributed to {Inner London} and {Outer London} respectively, but this argument is never advanced. People prefer to insist that "London is 020" while bursting several blood vessels around their eyes and staining their audience's clothing with spittle.
( .Yeti. El amor en los tiempos del cólera, Thu 31 Mar 2011, 20:39, closed)

Bollocks
New (020) 8xxx xxxx are now allocated in central London also.

Learn your facts.
(EuroSong I love horse meat: best of all the animals, Thu 31 Mar 2011, 20:56, closed)

well, years ago whilst working for BT we would not use the leading 0
Every fucking number has it so why state it. And the correct number is all the numbers. No other number will do if you want to make a call. Put a space where you fucking well want. It doesn't matter. Unless you are working in the exchange and need it for a cab box. It doesn't matter a fucking jot. There are no spaces - you can't press space. now fuck off....

A year of working the 100 line sets me against you number plebs.
(waxdart hello., Thu 31 Mar 2011, 23:46, closed)

"0" was the trunk line prefix, as I recall
All it did was tell the exchange that the subsequent string of digits should be routed externally.

So yes, the actual area code doesn't have an initial nought, but omitting the initial nought means that things don't work. It might not be part of the area code in fact, but it is in practice.

However, Galactic Yeti's point about 0207 and 0208 falls down if he tries to place an intra-London telephone call without the initial 7 or 8.
( flake has nothing against your right leg, Fri 1 Apr 2011, 2:27, closed)

"an intelligent, educated person turning a noun into a verb because he consciously realises that there's a gap in the language"
Go read something about language change (this perhaps - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift ) then come back and and try to justify this ridiculous statement.
There's a reason that linguists and grammar pedants are mutually exclusive groups.
( Zuowan, Fri 1 Apr 2011, 5:40, closed)

So you've just got a bit of a chip on your shoulder about your low intelligence and illiteracy?
That's not irrational. You should feel shit about being shit.
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Thu 31 Mar 2011, 20:17, closed)

Not quite
I've never been bothered about my or my friends low intelligence or illiteracy - my irrational hatred was of people who get off on pointing it out.
(speranza, Thu 31 Mar 2011, 20:23, closed)

I appreciate it when people point out a mistake I've made
Education doesn't end when you leave school/college - much like learning to drive doesn't stop when you get that shiny pink licence.
( snee held his breath since, Fri 1 Apr 2011, 12:49, closed)