Stress relief: a late-night rant on the subject of access to abortion
I was born and raised in Northern Ireland. It's (contentiously to some) part of the UK. Does that mean it has the same laws as in other parts of the UK? No. One major difference, for example, is abortion.

The 1967 Abortion Act that legalised abortion in England and Wales was not extended to Northern Ireland. Abortion is permitted in N. Ireland only to save a mother's life. This means very, very few cases each year. Instead, over 1,500 women travel clandestinely to England to terminate their pregnancies. The main parties in N. Ireland, on both sides of the divide, are resolutely agreed that they will NOT introduce the 1967 Abortion Act into the country. Five women are known to have died from backstreet abortions in N. Ireland since 1967.

I am fortunate and I have never had an abortion, nor even had to contemplate one, but I have friends and relatives who have and who have made that journey - some of them calm but angry that they have to leave their own country to do so; others young and frightened and in a traumatic situation that is exacerbated by the need to travel across the sea to gain access to a medical procedure to which women less than a hundred miles away have a right.

I am not intending to start a debate or - woe betide - a lengthy flame war on the emotive topic of abortion. It is probably evident from the tone of my post that I am pro-choice but that's not what motivates this post. Beyond my stance on abortion is my much stronger belief that if the UK is actually united or cohesive (and I'm aware that when it comes to legislation, it is not), then shouldn't we see the same rights shared amongst all the inhabitants?

*also thoroughly bitchslaps Irish government*
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Tue 22 Apr 2008, 0:07, 14 replies)

Crossing a sea to seek medical assistance?
Well that is just ridiculous. It's the catholics, isn't it?


Where I live, you have to travel 200 miles to the nearest abortion clinic....but not because of the laws. Our town is just considered too small to need one.
( flirting with badgers What? It sounded good at the time., Tue 22 Apr 2008, 0:34, closed)

^
No, it's not just the Catholics. Both Unionists and Nationalists are opposed. It's yet another outdated and bizarre Norn Ireland thing, like not being able to buy alcohol in supermarkets (recently changed so that you can buy it in a different, screened-off section of the shop with a dedicated till) and that in 2004, thirteen out of N. Ireland's 15 Accident and Emergency departments would not prescribe the emergency contraceptive pill to all who requested it (it was not available over the counter). Oh, and the age of consent is 17 in N. Ireland, though you can get married at 16 (probably to your cousin with six toes and his own tractor).
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Tue 22 Apr 2008, 0:52, closed)

Are you sure you aren't talking about Arkansas?
At least the part about marrying your cousin at 16.

Sounds like a big mess up there. The pill is legal, yet they still won't sell them? Jeez.

We do have alcohol in grocery stores. But in Texas we go one better....we have what is called a 'Party Barn'. Not only is this a drive-through liquor store, but they sell mixed drinks in styrofoam cups. 32oz daiquiris to be exact. Then people are surprised when they get arrested for DWI and get a ticket for having an open container of alcohol in the vehicle.
( flirting with badgers What? It sounded good at the time., Tue 22 Apr 2008, 1:00, closed)

As I'm sure you know
Scotland is even more separate from the rest of the UK when it comes to legislation, but for the most part this is a good thing. Scots law is generally regarded as more 'sensible' than English law (not that I know anything about it, I'm just repeating what I've been told) and the education system has long been praised as superior.

It's just a shame that we have such a bunch of numpties running the place at the moment. But I suppose that's true of Westminster too just now, possibly more so.
( K2k6 has a proper job these days, Tue 22 Apr 2008, 8:25, closed)

scots education system better?
ooooo, contentious issue. It's probably because the Scottish government actually spends money on it (english tax payers money maybe?) rather than letting it collapse like in England and Wales.

No, I'm not looking for a fight, I know that Scotland only gets a fixed amount of money and it just happens to seem to spend it more wisely than England on things what the people actually want like education and healthcare rather than the olympics.
(Bazongaloid, Tue 22 Apr 2008, 8:41, closed)

oh and scots
have a lot more protection when buying a house, you can't gazump someone in scotland. Much more sensible. And they have that crazy "not proven" verdict, which means, we still think you did it, but we can't prove it. I like that.
(Bazongaloid, Tue 22 Apr 2008, 8:43, closed)

Yup, English taxpayers' money
Scotland gets more money per head from Westminster than the rest of the UK. The SNP conveniently neglect this in their arguments for independence, and when it is brought up they say we can make it up from revenue from 'our' oil resources.

That'll be the British, finite, oil resources then?

As for the education system though, I meant that it is a broader system than the English one. Where an English student may do 3 A levels over 2 years, a Scottish one will study for 5 Highers in a single year, and can do more the following year if (s)he chooses, or do sixth year studies, or whatever the modern equivalent is, instead.

So a Scottish student can have a higher level of education in a wider range of subjects, rather than specialising by doing a two year course in a smaller number.

Maybe it's better, maybe it's not. I think it is.
( K2k6 has a proper job these days, Tue 22 Apr 2008, 8:56, closed)

@k2k6
you're clearly not down wiv tha kidz anymore, the english A level system has undergone something of a shake up in recent years, they now start off studying 5 AS levels (I think, it may have changed again by now) and then take three of them on to full A-level status (or four if they want to I guess), so it has got a bit broader. Sadly I think "General Studies" is still one of those subjects that every kid gets forced to do.
(Bazongaloid, Tue 22 Apr 2008, 9:20, closed)

Sensible indeed.
The Abortion Act applies in Scotland too, am I right?

I'm proud of being Norn Irish until it comes to the ridiculous and woefully backward attitudes they have to important things like, say, the modern world.
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Tue 22 Apr 2008, 9:48, closed)

It really gets my goat *loathe as I am to mention goats on this website*
That in the 21st Centuary there is still this medieval attitude towards womens rights and their right to choose. You cannot base laws nowadays on religious dogma. No women chooses abortion lightly and even if I was to get pregnant, knowing my lack of interest in being a mother, I would have a struggle coming to a decision.
( girlinthehole, Tue 22 Apr 2008, 10:01, closed)

@CHCB
Yes, the Abortion Act does apply in Scotland. It's only NI that isn't covered as far as I know.

And Al (sorry, Father Al), yes I am way behind with the secondary education system. Back in my day it was O Grades, Highers and CSYS in Scotland. Now it's Standard Grades, Highers, and god knows what else.

And England etc used to have O Levels and A Levels. That's all I know.
( K2k6 has a proper job these days, Tue 22 Apr 2008, 10:18, closed)

It should be easily accessible to all
But with certain provisos which would, I'd like to think, take away all stigma attached to it.
I don't say this because I think that life is cheap - quite the reverse. I've been lucky enough never to have experienced the pain and anguish of an unwanted pregnancy. I don't for one moment think that even the most hardened chavette would have an abortion without a second thought.
Greater education is necessary - education about birth control, pregnancy, basic human biology and most importantly, psychology.
The mental effects of both having a child or an abortion shouldn't be overlooked - both need support after the event.

Maybe if there was a fundamental respect of human life in all its forms then governments would realise that a woman's right to choose is imperative.
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Tue 22 Apr 2008, 10:19, closed)

I've just remembered
when I was 18 and starting Uni, and in a long term relationship, and discovering sex, I used to go to the Brook Clinic for free condoms (I wish I still got free condoms instead of forking out around a quid per well-protected shag).

Anyway, to get into the Brook Clinic at Belfast I had to walk past Paisley's Free Presbyterians waving tracts and shouting, and the militant Catholics (including a friend of mine who would shut up as I walked by) handing out miraculous medals and thrusting pictures of aborted foeti in my face.

Yes, that's sensible. Protest against abortion by picketing teenagers on their way to get contraception. They really did not see the logic.
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Tue 22 Apr 2008, 10:31, closed)

On Scotland's more sensible laws...
It's illegal to stop a woman breastfeeding in public up there. How cool is that? We so need that law in England. Boobies for Babies!
(Cryptoprocta has abandoned the username of Voodoo Mary, Tue 22 Apr 2008, 23:44, closed)