Oh, also
the fact you don't like them doesn't change the fact that they are considered a seminal act in a certain genre of electronica.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 15 Apr 2011, 15:11, 2 replies, latest was 15 years ago)

This is MONTY
Do you really expect his response to be much else than "I don't like them. Therefore they are fucking shit"?
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Fri 15 Apr 2011, 15:12, Reply)

of course not
sometimes I just feel obliged to step in.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 15 Apr 2011, 15:13, Reply)

I appreciate it
Love a bit of New Order, even though their association with "Madchester", as Monty points out, makes them cunts by proxy
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Fri 15 Apr 2011, 15:15, Reply)

the madchester association isn't really their fault
they pre-dated it and properly cut their "dance" teeth in NY in the 80s rather than Manchester. One of the best British bands of the last 30 years IMO.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 15 Apr 2011, 15:20, Reply)

I quite agree
You also make a good point about Madchester. I am struggling to think of another good manc band right now, it's responsible for more musical hate crime than any other city
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Fri 15 Apr 2011, 15:27, Reply)

That's unfair. I'm happy to be a great deal more specific about why they're shit -
and/or why other contemporaneous acts were infinitely superior.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 15 Apr 2011, 15:19, Reply)

A Certain Ratio were fucking BRILLIANT
I don't mean to suggest that you can't back up your arguments, merely that you have a very black and white viewpoint and are rarely willing to concede ground. I will admit that your knowledge of music is vastly greater than mine and as such you are entitled to have your opinion respected.
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Fri 15 Apr 2011, 15:23, Reply)

since there is no calibrated musical scale of quality, though
Any reason you can give for them being shit and others superior is merely an opinion, though, still.

Without New Order - yes, Madchester would have been different and that that might have prevented some dross from being released, but that's true of any emerging music genre. But there would also probably be no Prodigy, Orbital, Massive Attack etc.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 15 Apr 2011, 15:24, Reply)

I'm sorry but the last sentence of this contains nonsense.
I have to do some work now so I cannot go into detail but I could draw you a musical timeline of Liam Howlett's musical influences that led to the sound of the Prodigy and New Order are not on it. My mate Hamish was their photographer for a bit so I've met him a few times and have exchanged formative influences over drinks.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 15 Apr 2011, 15:34, Reply)

I said probably, not certainly
again, I don't know them, so I can't know. but I've read interviews in the mists of time where they've talked about the influence of the whole guitar/electronic thing, I'm sure.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 15 Apr 2011, 15:39, Reply)

Considered a seminal act in a certain genre of electronica.

'Shit, indie dance' being that certain genre.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 15 Apr 2011, 15:14, Reply)

well, in your opinion.
Don't make it right. They were massive in the rave scene, for a start.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 15 Apr 2011, 15:17, Reply)

No they weren't.
I went to fucking hundreds of raves all over the country, from free parties on farmland to aircraft hangers, to warehouses...never once did I hear New Order. They were not remotely massive on the rave scene - they were popular in the Hacienda* and that's about it.


*coincidentally chock-full of weedy indie student benders into 'Madchester'. My brother lived there at the time and I went a few times. Compared with the proper mental raves on the M25 circuit it was rubbish. Fucking piano house bollocks.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 15 Apr 2011, 15:22, Reply)

I refuse to believe that you can say with absolute certainty that you never heard New Order at a rave,
if only because I've been at raves where I wouldn't have known if St Winifred's School Choir had made a surprise appearance
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Fri 15 Apr 2011, 15:24, Reply)

You aren't me. Never once did I hear New Order.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 15 Apr 2011, 15:25, Reply)

That's because as soon as 'Fine Time' came on
you'd cover your ears and run around shouting "lalalalalalanotlistening".
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Fri 15 Apr 2011, 15:27, Reply)

Fair play
I can barely remember who I was on most of these occasions, let alone what was playing. But, as is common knowledge, your capacity for larging it is unparalleled.
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Fri 15 Apr 2011, 15:28, Reply)

This is so.
It's my life's work.

*cries*
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 15 Apr 2011, 15:29, Reply)

you went to more than me
so obviously I'll bow to your knowledge. But their stuff was massively common, particularly mixed, in the ones I went to.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 15 Apr 2011, 15:26, Reply)

YOU'RE massively common.


I'm just being a knob now. Sorry.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 15 Apr 2011, 15:27, Reply)

haha. Well played.
I'm not trying to out music you, I know that would be stupid. And I get why you don't like them, but they were very influential, even if they did influence a lot of crap as well as good.

/incidentally, have you really never heard them at a rave? because there's a really common about 20 second cut from bizzare love triangle that I've heard shitloads to move from xxxx to yyyy (I don't really do dance music so i'm buggered if I know which tracks)
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 15 Apr 2011, 15:31, Reply)

Not once. Honestly.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 15 Apr 2011, 15:34, Reply)