there is no such thing as the states expense, it is our expense

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:06, 2 replies, latest was 14 years ago)

Sounds awful communist to me.

(PsychoChomp, Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:08, Reply)

Sounds more like Libertarian Bull-shit to me.

( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:09, Reply)

Regardless it makes the point that the CEO benefits from tax-funded stuff in less obvious ways.

( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:08, Reply)

yes, but he paid part of the taxes that created that "tax-fund"
the governemnt don't make money and give it away for nothing, at least not before 2008
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:10, Reply)

Nope, sorry this makes no sense
Basically you said the rich get less back from the taxes they pay than the poor, Chompy pointed out a way in which they benefit more than you might think from a surface analysis, I've no idea if this levels it out or not but it's still a valid point.

Not sure what giving money away for nothing has to do with it or where anyone other then you, even mentioned it.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:15, Reply)

it was a side swipe at quantative easing
What we have here is;
truth - the richer you are the more tax you pay and the less you get back from that tax,
guesswork - somehow the fact that some of your taxes educate poeple, keep them healthy etc should be built into the the return that one gets on one's tax
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:18, Reply)

The thing is, and this is why I don't tend to have these conversations
is that there is just a fundamental disagreement over whether this is a) true and b) a just and good thing:

"the richer you are the more tax you pay and the less you get back from that tax,"

I would debate a and agree with b. I suspect, although I wouldn't want to put words into your mouth, that you would be the opposite.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:21, Reply)

There is a very good graph that shows the difference between taxes paid and services taken
it's terrifying really
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:22, Reply)

For the sake of argument, I'll ignore the possibility that the graph is inaccurate
I still think that it is just and right that the rich pay more, and it's not something I find 'terrifying' and no amount of debate will change my mind any more than I would be able to change yours.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:25, Reply)

Isn't that sort of the point of the welfare state?
Those who can afford to pay into it so that the poor can benefit.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:26, Reply)

www.b3ta.com/questions/offtopic/post1494096
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:27, Reply)

Yes and those people who have got rich got rich in the society that tax pays for
see them doing it in Somalia. Unless they're pirate leaders they wouldn't be able to do it.
(PsychoChomp, Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:28, Reply)

here you go, I get less back than I pay in, brilliant
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13633966
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:29, Reply)

Yup, based on that, so do I, quite considerably.
But I don't have any problem with that.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:31, Reply)

why not?
Fine the infirm, the old and the truely needy should have some support, otherwise they'll just cost more. But doesn't this show that those that are successful already pay more than their fair share?
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:32, Reply)

Really, this is why i don't have these conversations and actually I'm not sure why I waded in to this one.
There's no point to it. What does my 'why' have to do with anything? I am happy with this balance, you are not. Neither of us will change.


Edit: Just so it's clear, I'm not passing any sort of judgement on you, I just disagree with you funamentally about whether this is right or wrong.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:35, Reply)

Although I fully intend to take your 'Fine the infirm, the old and the truly needy' out of context and use it as a signature.

( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:37, Reply)

hahahaha

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:39, Reply)

s'bollocks
That thing claims I have 6K more in disposable income than I actually earn, so something somewhere is broken.

Edit, sorry got Tax and disposable income mixed up still broken.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:33, Reply)

It is spot on with in regards to income tax and NI
It also includes "stealth" taxes such as VAT, fuel duty etc, which will increase your bill
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:34, Reply)

See edit

( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:35, Reply)

Again, somthing no one but you mentioned
What you list as "truth" is your contention which is being argued, trying to claim a win based on bald assertion = fail

What you list as "guesswork" is in fact the counter argument that you are disputing.

So basically you argument boils down to "nyah, I'm right and you're wrong!" I think this means I am within my rights to call you a "fucking moron who wouldn't know a rational argument if it bit him"

You, sir, are a fucking moron who wpouldn't know a rational argument if it bit him. Now fuck off and talk to some Americans or similar dullards, they might be impressed.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:22, Reply)

You've missed the point

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:30, Reply)

Nope, you've avoided one
I shall not be doing politics with you again Ape, it's really not worth the typing.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:36, Reply)

Ok, well the point about the balance sheet of "the rich" with regards to taxes paid and services recieved is well established fact
the intangible benefits will of course exist, a society that doesn't tear itself apart being one of them,however "the poor" enjoy these benefits as well so it is a moot point.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 10 Jan 2012, 14:42, Reply)