Oh, I see your point.
Fair enough, I guess the last lot would have been the Nazis.
( Kroney, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 12:42, 1 reply, 12 years ago)

I'm not being entirely serious, I do see your point.
I think you probably do see mine, though. A specific group of people are utterly refusing to live by British law and for some reason are having a blind eye turned so long as they don't take the piss. I genuinely don't believe that would be happening if they weren't using the "oh it's our culture to wander" as a cover for an insitutionally criminal lifestyle.
( Kroney, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 12:45, Reply)

Aren't the stealing and the wandering two entirely separate facets?
Or are you proposing the latter be criminalised as well?
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 12:48, Reply)

When the wandering coincides with trespass and squatting on land that's owned by somebody
that would be a crime, yes. Two, actually.
( Kroney, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 12:52, Reply)

trespass isn't a crime
but, no-one (well, I'm not) is disputing your point.

What I am fucking strongly disputing is the argument this lot haven't been nicked because of some "cultural" or ethnicity thing. That's utter horseshit. They haven't been nicked for the same reason anyone else isn't nicked. Not enough evidence, not enough police time and not worth the bother.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 12:56, Reply)

I'm not saying they haven't been nicked for cultural reasons
I'm saying that they're using their culture as an excuse to move around and rob people.
( Kroney, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:00, Reply)

No they aren't
They might or might not be robbing people.

they are using their culture as reason to move around.

these two things are not the same.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:10, Reply)

If you genuinely don't believe that
then you've read too much fucking Daily Mail and there's little hope for you.

Organised criminal begging, trespass, pickpocketing has been going on in London with limited police interference for hundreds of fucking years. This lot are not have "a blind eye" turned to them any more than any other beggars or petty theives are. You've just been listening to too much xenophobic rhetoric.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 12:50, Reply)

Haven't read the Daily Mail in years.
Yes, crime of all sorts has been going on for years. The fact remains that it spikes when a particular community arrives, suggesting that they operate with an institutional disregard for the law.
( Kroney, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 12:53, Reply)

no.
it spikes when a group of people who happen to be criminals arrive. you want to judge a whole ethnic community by the actions of those people, you're a racist. And an idiot. "institutional disregard for the law" my arse. Are you writing speeches for UKIP now?
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 12:59, Reply)

Are you telling me that local crime rates don't spike when a traveller community arrives?

( Kroney, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:03, Reply)

I've not the faintest idea
I haven't looked into it

But I certainly wouldn't just assume it was the case without thinking. Just like I don't assume that all young black men are drug dealing murderers. But, hey, whatever keeps you feeling liberal, my man.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:05, Reply)

I'm going on my own experience.
When I was a child we'd have frequent traveller camps in my area. They weren't just one ethnic group by any means, but every time they'd turn up the incidents of assault, burglaries, robberies and car theft would spike noticeably.

Perhaps that does make me prejudiced against traveller communities. Frankly, I'm OK with that. What I'm not is racist. Traveller communities come from all different ethnic backgrounds. "Travellers" are not a race.
( Kroney, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:12, Reply)

You do know that's the same fucking argument the EDL and BNP use about Islam, right?
fucking hell.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:14, Reply)

Oh, come on, for fuck's sake.
Now you're just being insulting.
( Kroney, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:17, Reply)

And so are you.

(Bazongaloid, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:18, Reply)

no, I'm not.
The "it's not racist because Islam isn't a race so THERE" argument is bandied all the time by those fuckwits.

You're prejudiced against a particular group of society. Yes, semantically, it's not racism. Neither is sexism, or homophobia. You reckon they are "better"?
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:22, Reply)

Yes, you are.
The reason for this is that you are judging this whole group of people from Romania as criminals simply by virtue of the fact that they have come from somewhere else and are living in a way you don't like.

Nobody likes the criminal element that is almost certainly present amongst this group, but nobody likes the criminal element anywhere.

But you really can't see just how prejudicial your argument are can you?
(Bazongaloid, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:17, Reply)

Well, for one thing I'm not the one assuming travellers are all from Romania, you are.

( Kroney, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:18, Reply)

Did you miss the original post?
Because you've spent a long time arguing here for someone who doesn't know full well that we are discussing a group gypsies who are allegedly form Romania living in Hyde Park, I mean, I'm not suggesting you're clutching at straws here, but you do actually talk about Hyde Park quite specifically in the post below.
(Bazongaloid, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:20, Reply)

*This* group of gypsies may be from Romania.
I was talking about my experience with travellers in general. I've twice referenced it in my posts and specifically stated that I'm not targetting one group of travellers over another.

My problem with travellers, with ALL travellers, is that the crime rate spikes when they arrive somewhere and that my sympathies lie much further towards the lives that are getting disrupted. I don't think a travelling culture is a decent excuse to allow them to spike the crime rate in this way.

I am not the one making this a racial argument.
( Kroney, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:24, Reply)

For fucks sake, this is jsut ridiculous.
www.b3ta.com/questions/offtopic/post2041416

I'm glad you're so happy being prejudiced against groups of people because of the way they lives whilst being blissfully unaware of what sort of person that makes you.
(Bazongaloid, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:26, Reply)

I don't think anyone is turning a blind eye
I think you're simply making up facts to suit your argument.

I think that if the gypsies on Park Lane, or the Irish Travellers are found to have commited a crime they will be charged in exactly the same way that someone who lives on your street would be.

I also think that you are proposing that these people should be criminalised by virtue of existing and I think you should be honest about that rather than trying to hide it and saying "oh but you know what I mean don't you, it's those types that are doing it"

I think there is far more of a problem with a blind eye being turned to police officers who abuse people in custody, to people who commit large scale business fraud and to the rights of working people not to be forced into zero hours contracts and I happen to think that these issues are actually a lot more damaging to the country than the actions of a few individual petty criminals, much as I dislike anyone who would rather live a life of crime rather than actually working at a legitamate job.
(Bazongaloid, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 12:53, Reply)

If they existed without spiking local crime rates I woudln't have a problem with them at all.
Despite what you clearly seem to believe, I'm pretty liberal about how people choose to live their lives. My problem is that people shouldn't be able to trample on other peoples' rights in the doing of it.
( Kroney, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 12:57, Reply)

But by your argument you are demonstrating that you aren't in fact being that liberal

(Bazongaloid, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 12:59, Reply)

I guess I'm not being terribly liberal about people committing crimes, no.

( Kroney, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:02, Reply)

Stop falling back on that
nobody is arguing that criminals shouldn't be prosecuted, but you are actually arguing that this cultural group are inherently criminal and you apparently can't see how racist a viewpoint that is.
(Bazongaloid, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:04, Reply)

www.b3ta.com/questions/offtopic/post2041382
( Kroney, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:12, Reply)

what "rights" are being trampled on, here?

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 12:59, Reply)

Ownership of land, mostly.
Or of property.
( Kroney, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:01, Reply)

Who "owns" Hyde Park?

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:02, Reply)

Me

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:03, Reply)

Then, I agree, Boyce's rights are being infringed

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:03, Reply)

Hyde Park Owner's Corporation.
I'll have a dig through and find their rules on camping, should I?
( Kroney, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:04, Reply)

please do.
I'm sure they're undergoing a huge number of sleepless nights over this and are grateful for your deep concern about their "rights"
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:06, Reply)

Well if they're not bothered about it, then there's no problem, is there?

( Kroney, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:09, Reply)

I suspect they are a million times less bothered about it than the Metro or the Mail
or apparently a fair number of people here.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:11, Reply)

The right of "really quite liberal" people
to get on their soapboxes about the dirty forrin criminals whilst still retaining their liberal badge.
(Bazongaloid, Wed 7 Aug 2013, 13:01, Reply)